Talk:Archetype

Other suggestions for character archetypes?
Besides the Subspace Emissary characters, I also had a few other suggestions for characters in archetypes in mind. I also had a suggestion for a new archetype: The Elice archetype. Elice characters are characters, usually princesses, who are close to the lord or another main characer, and are kidnapped or otherwise held hostage by the villains for a majority of the game. Not all members of this archetype are recruited, but those that are join as late-game recruits. In games with this archetype, one of the main goals of the lord is to rescue the Elice character. Suggeted members for this archetype are: BlazingLarvesta0636 (talk) 19:27, January 2, 2019 (UTC)
 * Alm (FE2/15) for Jeorge/Lewyn - Is introduced as a simple villager from Ram Village, but is later revealed to be the lost son of Emperor Rudolf.
 * Eliwood and Hector (FE7) for my suggested Innes/Duesell archetype - Once the player beats the game, they have the option of either choosing to play Eliwood's tale or Hector's tale. Which lord they pick will be playable right from Chapter 11, while the other lord does not join until Chapter 12.
 * Ursula (FE7) for Michalis - I've seen this one flying around on certain pages and am not too sure about this one myself, but Ursula is a rather cold and heartless member of the Black Fang who seems more concerned about herself (and Sonia) than the other members, similar to the likes of Kempf and Narcian. Her ambition also sees her becoming a pawn of Nergal, as she is subsequently turned into a Morph after Chapter 26E/28H.
 * Rajaion (FE9) for Hardin - Is initially a kind dragon Laguz, but gets captured and has Izuka's feral drug used on him to make him into Ashnard 's personal mount. While he is not fought directly, he is technically fought as the final boss of Path of Radiance as Ashnard's mount, and regains his sanity shortly before dying after being defeated by Ike's army.
 * Izuka (FE10) for Gharnef - Is a major antagonist in Radiant Dawn, and is responsible for creating the feral drug that turned several Laguz, including the aforementioned Rajaion, feral.
 * Yukimura (FE14 Birthright) for Gotoh - Already explained above.
 * Ryoma (FE14 Revelation) for Navarre - Admittedly, this one is rather shaky, but hear me out. In the Revelation route, Ryoma is initially encountered as an enemy unit in Chapter 13, and while he is not talked to in order to be recruited, Corrin is still able to convince him to fight for their cause by Chapter 16. He also comes with a personal weapon and skill akin to a Killing Edge, has high speed and skill growths, and has ties to the Lena equivalent, Sakura.
 * Azura (FE14 Revelation) for Jeorge/Lewyn - While her status as a royal is known from the start, her status as a Vallite is not revealed until early in the Revelation route.
 * Elice (FE1/11)
 * Mila (FE2/15 Celica's Route)
 * Elice, Lena, Maria, and Nyna (FE3/12)
 * Altena (FE4 Second Generation)
 * Eyvel (FE5)
 * Hausen (FE7 Lyn's Tale)
 * Lucia (FE10 Part 2)
 * Peach/Zelda, Ness, and Donkey Kong (SSBB)
 * Katarina (FE12)
 * Ylgr and Veronica (FEH Book II)


 * My comments for each character here are in response to the games I've played. Other character suggestions might or might not fit the archetypes, so pls don't add them until further replies.
 * Alm - except he is the protagonist which makes him different from the rest..
 * Eliwood/Hector - your sub archetype suggestion is still too vague with so few candidates so far.
 * Ursula - she doesn't seek power, she just worships Sonia and listen to every her commands, so rejected.
 * Rajaion - you said it yourself, he is Ashnard's mount and not fought directly. Also he's not possessed, but drugged.
 * Izuka - we got Sephiran as the Gharnef candidate, you can't have more than one candidate for this archetype, it makes no sense to have many individuals manipulate the main events of a game.
 * Elice archetype - an archetype should be easy to recognize throughout the franchise, not to mention your candidates are not all valid for your archetype suggestion:
 * Mila is a god and barely meet your criterias
 * Lena is of her own archetype, which can easily be mistaken with this
 * Altena is kidnapped but also raised by Travant, which makes her different
 * Eyvel? I couldn't recall any part where she got kidnapped.
 * Also, don't add non-canon FE games such as SSB series. -- Khang (talk) 04:46, May 13, 2019 (UTC)

Fernand for Camus Archetype
Looking at the dialogue that Fernand has, Fernand as an antagonist really seems to be driven by his beliefs and loyalty towards that very belief. I cannot articulate it that easily, but this reddit thread that discusses Fernand's character really goes over it and I feel that Fernand is VERY much in tune to how Camus functions.

[//old.reddit.com/r/fireemblem/comments/abwgd7/the_heroes_of_valentia_episode_28_fernand_to/ https://old.reddit.com/r/fireemblem/comments/abwgd7/the_heroes_of_valentia_episode_28_fernand_to/]

So hopefully you guys agree as well.Omegaxis1 (talk) 20:23, January 2, 2019 (UTC)

Revenge-seeking Archetype?
I’ve noticed that in a few installments in the series, there tends to be that one enemy boss that, while may or may not be fighting out of loyalty, also fights the player out of revenge for killing a loved one. It’s kind of like a revenge-driven version of the Camus archetype.

Here’s my picks for the archetype:
 * Ishtore (FE4)
 * Lloyd and Linus (FE7)
 * Ryoma (FE14 Conquest)

I’m considering adding these as well, but I’m sort of on the fence about them for a few reasons.
 * Brunnya (FE6) She does fight for her dead leader, Zephiel, but doesn’t seem to have too mucch ill will against Roy despite this.
 * Aversa (FE13) She does fight out of revenge for killing Validar in Ch. 25, but considering she was supposedly brainwashed at that point, I’m unsure about this one.
 * Berkut (FE15) He does fight out of revenge in the final chapter, but not for a lost loved one (in fact, he killed his loved one himself).
 * Laevatein (FEH Book II) She does not die at the end of her story, but other than that, her Ch. 13 fight does fit the bill.

BlazingLarvesta0636 (talk) 17:41, May 12, 2019 (UTC)
 * Again, I have to emphasize that an archetype should be easy to recognize throughout the franchise, with as minimal inconsistency as possible. You shouldn't call it an archetype when you got barely 3 picks, and still unsure with most of your candidates. Also, if a candidate doesn't fulfill all criterias, they're out. -- Khang (talk) 04:53, May 13, 2019 (UTC)

Three Houses Archetypes?
SPOILERS AHEAD. Been thinking about who from FE16 could fit into some of these archetypes. Note that this will contain SPOILERS.

Edelgard fits all the requirements to be a Rudolf. She rules her kingdom as an emperor, she initiates a war with neighboring countries for her own ambitions, is arguably the most major human antagonist in the game, and IIRC in all the routes, her her death is either a prelude to the endgame or IS the endgame. She's a shoo-in.

Jeralt can be a Cornelius. He's a mentor figure for the main character, is narratively killed by a faction of major antagonists, and his death spurs the protagonist into action (here, against the Flame Emperor and Those Who Slither In The Dark). He's not royalty, but he has strong ties to the Church of Seiros, a major influential body.

Flayn is kind of a toss-up between three: Maria, Lene, and Tiki, but she's most like Tiki, despite not being a divine dragon (though she does possess divine power in some capacity, due to being the original bearer of the Major Crest of Cethleann). She appears to be very young, despite being over 1000, she's kidnapped by the enemy at some point and eventually rescued, and has a strong guardian figure who is also playable in Seteth.

Shamir I think is an Ogma despite not being a sword wielding male. Prior to coming to the monastery she was a mercenary, she helps guard a noble figure in Rhea, and her ending describes her disappearing after the war. Like what the Ogma archetype describes.

I still need to experience 3H more to talk more definitively, so I won't expand on these, but here are some others that I think could fit in some archetypes. Cyril as a Kliff, Thales and/or Solon as a Gharnef, and Hanneman and/or Manuela as Wendells.

Aaronarium (talk) 07:35, July 31, 2019 (UTC)

Explaining Rationale
I want to take this opportunity to explain the rationale behind Flayn as a Tiki because SOMEONE keeps deleting it and YES I'm petty.

Flayn is unequivocably a Tiki. She fits literally all the requirements. She has the appearance of an adolescent but is actually over 1000 years old. This is because her true identity is that of Cethleann, who fought alongside Seiros in the war of heroes over 1000 years prior to FE16. She is like this because she has draconic heritage. Sothis is literally her grandmother, and other people related to Sothis, like Rhea, can shapeshift into dragons, much like a Manakete or Dragon Laguz can. She is kidnapped by an enemy faction and is later rescued and recruited. She also has a playable guardian figure in Seteth.

"But wait!", you ask. "Although Flayn is related to someone who can shapeshift into a dragon, she can't transform herself. Therefore she is NOT a Tiki because Tikis have to be able to transform into dragons". First, all archetypes are arbitrary, and no character exists that fits an archetype in the exact same way others in that archetype do, so the hair splitting to EXCLUDE characters from an archetype is pointless.

More importantly, this statement is patently false. Although Flayn cannot shapeshift over the course of the game, Seteth (who is also a Child of the Goddess) says at the end of the Silver Snow route that he and Flayn lost their ability to transform long ago, while it seems Rhea never lost it. Flayn has the capacity to transform into a dragon. She's a Tiki.

Aaronarium (talk) 08:18, August 14, 2019 (UTC)
 * We have been pretty strict about this page in general as we have to have consistency present for the story, appearance, AND gameplay aspects of a character. Yes she is older than she appears and yes concept art shows her with the point ears. She fills story criteria, but gameplay wise she is vastly different from other members of the Tiki Archetype. Just because she could turn into a dragon in the past by a statement by Seteth is not enough to qualify unless she actually does as all other members have clearly been shown doing so in story AND in gameplay. Heck, we don't allow Kana on this as they can actually transform, but do not meet the age quirk. Also Ninian would qualify more than she does because she actually does transform in story into a dragon, but not in gameplay and not just because someone said she could in the past or whatever. Unless she gains access to her transformation, for now, she is not a Tiki. Keep in mind, there will be future content for Three Houses so that may change, she does not meet all requirements at the current moment to be a Tiki. She does, however, qualify as a Maria.-Nauibotics (talk) 17:43, August 14, 2019 (UTC)