Talk:Archetype/Archive 2

The following is a list and description of each archetype. can you explain what an archetype is on the page (or put an external link to wikipedia there) because i and i'm sure many other people have no idea what that is.-- Semaj draehs - Talk page - 21:33, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

FE Archetypes
Am I the only one who's noticed that Paola from FE 1 starts a trend? I mean after her there's Yuno, Fiora, Syrene, and Sigrun. These characters should qualify as a new archetype. With the prerequisites being that the character must be of the Pegasus knight or Falkoknight class and have a connection with the other two Peg knights the player is usually given. (PrincessOfSwords 22:00, 8 August 2008 (UTC))

I think the pegesus sisters themselves are an archetype. After all, pegesus knights always come in threes and they always seem to be close.--Otherarrow 00:03, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

Thats a good point. I was kinda disappointed that there were no pegasus sisters in FE 4. You got Ferry in the first half then Phee or Femina in the second half depending on weather or not you paired Furry and Levin. Also can you use the triangle attack in Radiant Dawn? It's hard to tell because when the army splits you've got Sigrun and Tanith in one and Marcia in the other. (PrincessOfSwords 04:40, 9 August 2008 (UTC))

Many of these need to go.
Doga - Knights have high defense? Some of them join early? Not really a meaningful archetype.

Julian - Thieves have high Speed and often join early? Same problem as with Doga. In addition, Chad and Julian actually have good growth rates.

Saji and Maji - Maji has worse Skill growth than Saji, and in FE1 he had better HP growth. Ward has a better Skill growth than Lot. Bartre has better Speed growth than Dorcas. The archetype is right that Fighters often come in pairs (There's an FE5 pair as well), but the information on stats here is just so wrong. Also note that Saji and Maji were part of a trifecta with Barts rather than simply a pair.

Sirius - Basically, a promoted unit that stays fairly good the entire game. Way, way, way too expansive. This archetype, if it listed everyone that went by that description and was not a Gato, could easily be the size of all characters in all other archetypes combined.

Nabarl - Guy is the only one listed with a relation to the "Julian." I think almost every Myrmidon or Swordmaster ever has low Strength but high Skill/Speed, so this doesn't seem like a meaningful archetype either.

Oguma - The reason their growths are usually "balanced" is that most of them are mediocte. Excellent starting stats, though. Oguma and Dieck join in the second chapters of their game, not in the middle. And Zihark doesn't work well in this archetype even if it is kept.

Kain and Abel - I would keep this one, but note that of the original Kain and Abel, that was just the way they started out. Their growth rates reversed the situation later on.

Jaffar as a Gato doesn't really work either.

Summary: A lot of these archetypes are either expressing things that basically everyone in that class also demonstrates, and many others don't really work even by their own criteria. MagusII 03:55, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

I'm no expert on the fandom, but Nabarl deserves a mention for his creation of the Myrmidon class, and the fact that several myrmidon fit personality wise. Sirius could use some simplification, maybe a promoted unit (or just a paladin if you want to narrow it down) that joins middle to late game and is better than/same as the Jeigan stat wise? Oh, and I never got Jaffar as a Gato either.--Otherarrow 04:04, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

Actually Ayra from FE 4 started the Myrmidon class. Nabarl was a hero. (PrincessOfSwords 04:04, 21 August 2008 (UTC))

Yes, but Nabarl (who, might I remind everyone that he was a Mercenary), with his Kill Sword and basic appearance that most myrmidons seem to carry, inspired that class.--Otherarrow 10:26, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

Made some changes. MagusII 04:19, 22 August 2008 (UTC)

I personally think that Jaffar is a Gato. He's pre-promoted, has great stats, and joins late (Chapter 26x, at the earliest). Seems to follow teh trend. I'd also like to nominate Myrrh for to be a Gato. Although she doesn't have great stats at first, she becomes a goddess by lvl. 20. Darth Anathema 21:06, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

Neither of them join endgame,Jaffar isn't strong enough to be a Gato, and like you said, Myrrh has to be trained. Gatos join the at Final chapter or at least one before and have high starting stats, to the point that they can make up for an untrained team. The people you mentioned don't match enough conditions.--Otherarrow 21:33, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

I'm not sure, Jaffar is said to be almost godlike and myrth can kill most units.

-- Semaj draehs - any replies to my Talk page  21:38, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

If Jaffar is godlike, than Athos, who is a perfect example, is the ruler of the Multiverse. They don't join late enough, Jaffar is outshined if you promote Matthew or Legault, and as noted Myrrh needs to be trained first. I have nothing against Myrrh or Jaffar, but they are not Gatos--Otherarrow 22:31, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

I don't think I'm buying this Nina Archetype either. It seems entirely story-based, whereas the others have some at least common gameplay component. And is there any reason why Marth, Ellis, and a metric ton of FE4 characters wouldn't qualify as well? MagusII 00:47, 27 September 2008 (UTC)

Like Colm said, it is an archetype of the story. Also,the other archetypes you mentioned are either too vague (Marth's would be just all the lords and Marich's would be everyone in a mage hat...er...every mage.) or too specific (Most of the Seisen no Keifu characters would get about only 2 definite-no-debate hits anyway. Although you do have a point on whether or not story archetypes count.--Otherarrow 04:03, 27 September 2008 (UTC)

That wasn't what I meant, sorry if it wasn't clear. I'm not seeing why Marth, Ellis, and various FE4 characters would not qualify as part of the "Nina" archetype.MagusII 05:18, 27 September 2008 (UTC)

Oh, alright...Well, Marth's biggest problem against this is the reason most lords are not Ninas: he is a guy. I can see Ellis working though (perhaps with Marth as a note like Ephraim is to Eirika), and I can see several of the FE4 cast. If you believe they fit the archetype then add them.--Otherarrow 09:20, 27 September 2008 (UTC)

If gender can make or break whether a character fits the archetype, I would suggest that the qualifications for being in it are rather superficial. And for what it's worth, Guinevere in FE6 doesn't quite fit the qualifications, but her general role in the story seems like she would be in this category, if we keep it.MagusII 19:56, 27 September 2008 (UTC)

Yes well, you have a point. So is it even an archetype at all? If we keep oth genders then we have about 50 or so characters. I now think that the archetype is a bit too, what is the word, broad.--Otherarrow 20:28, 27 September 2008 (UTC)

Nina Archetype
The Nina Archetype IS a storyline componet. Thusly it's a storyline Archetype... so that arguement is contradictatory...

And Jaffar is no Gados...

If story stuff alone is sufficient to make an archetype section, we might as well make a "Marth" archetype for main Lords who are boringly heroic or something. And a "Clarine" for annoying staff chick. And a "Garnef" for evil magical villain dude. The FE series tends to repeat story elements and character personalities quite a bit, and there's just too many of those to list them all and still have this article mean much.MagusII 05:17, 27 September 2008 (UTC)

Est Archetype
I would probably remove Amelia. Because she enters the game in the first half of the game(chapter 9). I would have to consider Zeiss, because he enters your party in level 16 at an unpromoted level 7. I understand the fact that he has very high strength and defense for his level, but he does fit the archetype. Teh Pwnerer 01:38, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

Sophia is a better example than Zeiss, the archetype is about units who start out rather weak late game and if you train them up, they become powerful. Zeiss is pretty good when he starts and does not need the time to train that most Ests do.--Otherarrow 02:22, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

Yes, but Zeiss (a) joins late in the game, (b) is a very low level for the time he is recruited (as stated in the archetype description, and (c) can become very powerful. I understand he's already strong, but he fulfills the criteria. Also, other games have more than one example. Amelia and Ewan are both listed, and they were both FE8. Teh Pwnerer 05:00, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

Out of curiosity, what counts as "late-game" to qualify as an Est? Because Est herself joins in Chapter 18 of 25, Nino joins 26/30, and Amelia 9/21 and Ewan 12/21. Darth Anathema 21:04, 5 April 2009 (UTC)
 * PErhaps at least later half of the game, I would think. Amelia and Ross are out, but eh.--Otherarrow 21:28, 5 April 2009 (UTC)

Isn't Fiona an Est of Micaiah's story? Super late, weak base, super difficult to use, great growths? Hasofcd 00:30, June 20, 2010 (UTC)

Doesn't Elincia qualify as an Est? Hasofcd 03:52, June 24, 2010 (UTC)
 * Not really. I'd say she is more of a secondary Lord personally. I'd compare calling her an Est to claiming Ephraim counted as one when he rejoins the party in Elincia's path of the Sacred Stones.--Otherarrow 11:10, June 24, 2010 (UTC)

I think you're confusing Elincia with Eirika; in Path of Radiance, Elincia becomes playable toward the end of the game, as on of the last characters to join, at level 1 with low base stats, but she has excellent growths in every stat but defense and HP. Joins late, low level, low bases, good growths; sounds like an Est to me Are You Serious 22:49, July 2, 2010 (UTC)

And how about Sanaki? Those growths are pretty awesome, but bases, not so much. Hasofcd 03:50, July 24, 2010 (UTC)

If you are putting in Sanaki, then what about Myrrh. She is low bases (besides dragonstone bonus) and can train to be the best unit in the game Killinngedge 20:21, September 4, 2010 (UTC) Killingedge

Kain & Abel
In FE6, Lance wore green and Alan red. The archetype says in FE9 the trend was reversed. I'm not sure much about FE8 and their cavaliers, so... I think somebody more qualified than me could edit. Teh Pwnerer 05:03, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

Nabarl
How is this even an archetype. I wolud guess that 99% of myrmidons have high speed and skill growths with low strength growths. Also, if it is an archetpye, how doesn't Fir fit the qualifications? Teh Pwnerer 05:06, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

Marisa or Zihark, maybe? 71.207.87.185 00:24, 10 January 2009 (UTC)

Zealot
Well, even though Zealot comes in chapter 7, his growths are just SO BAD that he should be included. I believe that Ofiaye joined around the same point in Seisen no Keifu. Teh Pwnerer 02:43, 23 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Oifaye is a special case, as he comes at the beginning of the second generation. Other than that, Zealot's bad stats do not make him a Jag...Jeigen.--Otherarrow 23:33, 22 January 2009 (UTC)

missing the fighters
fighters coming in pairs is some sort of archetype and I think it should be added, (its kind of like the pegasus sisters)

-- Semaj draehs - any replies to my Talk page  19:33, 10 April 2009 (UTC)

The Bord and Cord? I removed them because people were complaining that they were not notable enough.--Otherarrow 20:44, 10 April 2009 (UTC)

Well I believe they are an archetype no matter what anyone else says, I suggest you put them back in, but its up to you. -- Semaj draehs - any replies to my Talk page  20:47, 10 April 2009 (UTC)

Does Ayra fit the Nabarl Archetype? And is the Cain/Abel archetypes correct?
I've been sort of questioning Ayra being included in the Nabarl archetype. She IS a myrmidon (sort of), but she lacks the killing edge/other high crit sword the archetype requires... I guess I could understand her bending the rules a bit though.

Also I don't understand the Abel and Cain archetype. In FE1, Abel starts with higher skill, speed, and weapon skill, but grows higher strength, and weapon skill than Cain only. Cain starts with higher strength,and luck than Abel, but grows more HP, Skill, Speed, and Luck than Abel. This carries on in FE3, their base stats are the same but Abel grows more HP than Cain and Cain grows more weapon skill.

I don't know, the Cain and Abel archetypes are really confusing.

--Special:Contributions/I Miss You 12:34, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
 * You could make a case for Ira's inclustion because of her Astra skill (I am not sure if there are killer weapons in Seisen no Keifu...) As for Cain and Abel, I am not sure. Does this mean that they were switched for FE3 book 2? (Cain being a Abel and Abel a Cain?)--Otherarrow 21:14, 26 May 2009 (UTC)


 * That clears things up a bit with Ayra. I forgot FE4 doesn't have a Crit value, meaning Killer weapons would be sort of pointless. (Unless they gave you the crit skill, which still wouldn't help if said unit had low skill.)


 * Also I'm not counting Book 2, simply because Abel is a prepromote and Kain is not. This give's Abel an obvious boost in most stats. (He would be lolfail if they left his stats the same and just promoted him.)
 * The archetype as a whole is hard to explain... generally the Green knight grows more of the "manly" stats (Strength, Defense, HP, Build) while the Red Knight gains more of the "graceful" stats (Speed, Skill, Luck, Magic/Resistance) This was only switched in FE6 where Allen was more like Abel base and growth wise and Lance was more like Cain. I was thinking the descriptions of the Abel and Cain archetypes should be switched.--Special:Contributions/I Miss You 05:08, 27 May 2009 (UTC)
 * (cough)Made actual account.(cough)--I Miss You 23:24, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

The only Abels listed that have higher Strength and Defense growths, and so forth is Abel. It's the same thing with Kain. In all the other games where there is an obvious Kain/Abel (FE4, 6, 7, and 8), the base stats match their growths. I'd suggest a more appropriate classification. Kains have higher strength and defense, and in the Japan-only games wore red armour while wearing green in the English games. Abels have higher speed and skill, and in the Japan-only games wore green armour while wearing red in the English games. The Kains are: Kain, Noish, Alan, Sain, and Kyle, while the Abels are: Abel, Alec, Lance, Kent, and Forde. --IceFenrir 00:37, 19 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Fair enough. Let's make the changes then.--Otherarrow 00:41, 19 July 2009 (UTC)

zeiss and oujay
I was wondering, do you think that Zeiss and Oujay from Fire Emblem 6 are considered to be Est and Ogma archetypes? I was thinking of including these characters for several reasons. Oujay growths rates are evenly distributed like Ogma and his fellow mercenary Dieck (although when compared to Dieck, he ends up with higher speed and luck). Zeiss starts out at level 7 in chapter 16. He appears weak at first since he is very low level and his stats are quite low, but with great stat growths (as well as Hard Mode bonuses), he turns out to be one of the best units in the game. Too bad I consider Sophia to be one of the worst Ests in history.--Dark Paladin X 17:23, 9 August 2009 (UTC)

Trueblade74 (sorry i don't know if my profile has a link): Dude, I don't know if you've noticed yet, but about every single unit you get seems to be part of a duo or trio or more, consisting with classes and promotions. Those are: Lance, Alan, Treck, Noah, Marcus, Zealot, Percival; Bors, Wendy, Barth, Douglas; Ward, Lot, Bartre; Thany, Tate, Yuno; Dieck, OUJAY, Echidna; Ellen, Saul, Yodel; Clarine, Cecilia; Rutger, Fir, Karel; Wolt, Dorothy, Klein, Igrene; Lugh, Lilina, Hugh; Chad, Astol, Cath; Sue, Shin, Dayan; Gonzales, Geese, Garret; Ray, Sophia, Niime; Miledy, ZEISS. The first is the start, the second is weaker than your original by recrution time if the original was trained, and the third is either promoted or stronger than the other 2. It`s not an archetype; it's abuse of a new animation style and class abilities. Oujay is pretty much similar to Lilina, Lucius (FE7), Amelia (FE8), Sothe (FE9), and Rolf (FE10) : Something seemingly useless at the beginning, due to low stats or previously recruited unit in same class, or both, but if trained, becomes one of your best units. BTW, Oujay is already counted as part of the Ogma archetype. As for Zeiss, he shares the title of Est with Sophia, but isn't really that good; he mainly focuses on defence and HP (which is a MAJOR pain for Arena Abusing), making him more like a General with wings, or a demo for Aran (FE10).

Archer Archetype
Hey, I'm just a fan of this wiki and have made contributions (I have also debated getting a wikia account) and I was wondering, I've noticed that there always seems to be a weak archer with a lot of potential that joins in the beginning of the game, i.e. Gordin, Rebecca and Rolf, maybe a new archetype should be added for these? Gordin and Rolf become great, if not good snipers, something that seems to be held in common for many of the games. Just something I wanted to point out.

You're right. I'll add that in. (Camtech075 23:46, September 25, 2009 (UTC))

Enemy Archtype
Hardin, Alvis, Zephiel, Lyon, Nergal all start out as good people and were later corrupted (by the darksphere, Manfloy, father trying to kill him, Sacred Stone, quintessence respectively). Isn't this an archtype of some kind?

-- Semaj draehs - any replies to my Talk page  16:19, 28 August 2009 (UTC)

New archetype: the Levn?
I've noticed there's often a character posing as a simple traveler who joins early or mid-game, and is later revealed to be royalty, or otherwise of plot-critical heritage. Commonly, but not neccesarily, a bard.

Examples:
 * Levn (FE4)
 * Elphin (FE6)
 * Nils and Ninian (FE7)
 * Joshua (FE8)
 * L'arachel (FE8)
 * Kurth (FE10)

Would this qualify as an archetype?

--Everzwijn 16:48, 29 August 2009 (UTC)
 * I don't see why it wouldn't be. It does seem to be a recurring character type--Otherarrow 17:02, 29 August 2009 (UTC)

RE: Levn?
Would Matthew qualify for that, assuming it became classified as an archetype? He joins the Lyndis Leagion early in game under the guise of a common thief, but later reveals that he works as a spy for house Ostia, one of the most powerful regions in the Lycean League. Just a suggestion. Sen Toshi - 23:41, September 25, 2009 (UTC)

I don't think so. He may be more important that we thought but he's not really that important to the plot. (Camtech075 23:43, September 25, 2009 (UTC))

I'd argue that that could be open to interpretation. Working as a spy for house Ostia, he's at least related in some obscure way(socially) to the nobles there. Like Marcus with Eliwood, he seems to be Hector's "right hand man" in some ways. His fiancee is involved in the plot serving as a primary source of information without which the plot might never have progressed past the invasion of Caelin. She later dies. Assuming Matthew is still alive, he mourns and buries her. If he's dead, he is mentioned and she is buried beside him. Depending on how strict you would want to be with the guidelines for this archetype, he may or may not be eligible for inclusion. Sen Toshi - 23:49, September 25, 2009 (UTC)

Good point, but just because Leila is plot-important doesn't mean that he is. I don't care either way, but I don't think he should count. (Camtech075 23:53, September 25, 2009 (UTC))

Guess you've got a point. This will probably simply remain up in the air. Still, had to throw it in here just to see if it could be done somehow. Sen Toshi - 23:58, September 25, 2009 (UTC)

Outside of plot importance, he doesn't count because he's a spy. Hiding his true identity is the very point behind his profession. --Everzwijn 16:45, September 26, 2009 (UTC)

Eh, but I love the thieves and such. Couldn't resist giving it a shot. Sen Toshi - 02:10, September 27, 2009 (UTC)

Kain/Abel Archetypes
Who put Oscar in the Kain Archetype and Kieran in the Abel Archetype? In general, I thought that the Abel was the Green Knight and Kain was the Red Knight. (Camtech075 23:41, September 25, 2009 (UTC))

RE: Archer Archetype
Could someone edit the Gordin Archetype that I added to be part of the "Archetype" section? I would do it but I don't know how. (Camtech075 15:21, September 26, 2009 (UTC))
 * Sure, you just need to add the correct amount of '=' (equal) signs in the header (in this case from 2 to 3). Aveyn Knight 15:52, September 26, 2009 (UTC)

Mage Archetype?
I've been thinking, and I've noticed that Marich (Merric) from FE1 might have started a trend of earlygame mages that come at a low-ish level. Look at this:


 * Marich (Merric) joins in chapter 4 of FE1/11
 * May and Boowy join during chapter 2 of FE2 (Cellica Party)
 * Ryuto joins during chapter 3 of Alm Party.
 * Linde joins at the beginning of chapter 3 in FE3.
 * Asvel joins at the beginning of the prologue (1st generation of FE4)
 * Yuria and Amid/Arthur join during chapter 6- the first chapter of the 2nd generation (Of FE4)
 * Asvel joins during chapter 4x of FE5
 * Lugh joins during chapter 3 of FE6.
 * Erk joins duirng chapter 5 of Lyn's story and chapter 14 (The third chapter of FE7 Eliwood/Hector's story unless you count 13x)
 * Lute joins during chapter 4 of FE8.
 * Soren joins at the beginning of chapter 4 in FE9.
 * Ilyana joins during chapter 3 of FE10 Part 1.
 * Soren joins during chapter 3-prologue of FE10.

Just a thought. (Camtech075 23:28, September 26, 2009 (UTC))
 * I just added a similar archetype before reading this. I'd prefer to split them by genders though, since the female ones typically appear last - only Lute, Linde and Ilyana break this trend, while Yuria technically isn't a Mage. Aveyn Knight 21:07, October 16, 2009 (UTC)

Wouldn't Vaida (FE7) be included in the group of Dragon Knight characters who initially appear as enemies? I know she doesn't have red armor, but I still think she belongs.

about gottoh abel and cain archetype
i think fe9 nasir should be included in the gottoh archetype and i pretty sure forde and kyle's roles are switched

Marcus FE7 is a Jeigan!
I edited it onto the page, but it got taken off, so I decided to take my case up here. Im a guest, but I'm not a vandal. Marcus has better growths and starting stats than his buddies, and his STARTING stats are probably on par for an Ofi, however his growths are completele crap (with him usally just gaining skill, if your lucky), he has ZERO end game potential, and using him past chapther 6 is going to hurt you. Titanaia (fe9) and Seth (FE8) have great growths and are endagame viable. Maybe thye won't be fantasitc units, but their usable. Marcus at the end of the game is a weak cripple who will be outclassed by EVERYONE else in your army, and raising Marcus is the leading cause of newbies being stuck at Limastella (go search the gamefaqs board). Seth and Titiania (FE9) won't harm your end game team, and Titania (FE10) is a BEASTLY endgame unit. Just because Marcus is a bit stronger than the other Jiegans, does not make him an Of. He still has ZERO potential and garbage growths (which I believe is whats suppose to seperate the two). Thoughts?
 * Well, people are not really meant to use any Jeigan, Oifey or otherwise, after a certain point. Some specifics. Oifey gets out shined by the majority of the "Children" characters and others like Aless or Shanan, and Seth is about as useful as Marcus, sure he is better in direct comparison, but everyone has pretty high potential in that game and promoting any of the cavaliers (to either class) will make them outclass Seth in the end anyway. As for Marcus, yes he is a horrid unit, but compared to other Jeigans (including his FE6 self), some have found him very useful, and yes, I have seen some who have taken him to the endgame (why, I do not know, but the fact that they even considered it must show something about him). As for which he truely belongs, I know not. We originally had both forms as an Jeigan, than people came editing by insisting he was an Oifey. And now, we have people editing by insisting he is a Jeigan.
 * Also, Titania is not a Jeigan or an Oifey in Radiant Dawn, the closest we have to that is Sothe, but not close enough that people are willing to label him either.--Otherarrow 18:26, January 16, 2010 (UTC)
 * IS themselves state in their Q and A sections that Marcus (FE7) and Titania (FE9) are usable from the beginning to end (and implied Seth fell into the same boat). Marcus is also at the highest point in Fire Emblem Genesis's FE7 tier list. Aveyn Knight 19:44, January 16, 2010 (UTC)

Marcus in FE6 is then a jeigan, but in fe7 he's not. I once tried to train him and he's quite decent (Fe7) and while training him in Fe6 his strength remained the same for 9 levels. So i think he is an oifey in fe7 (though after that i stopped training him) - airheadsrock. 13.08, Feb 13 2010

i think there is one more archetype. something like lowen and noah.
you know from fe6(idk fe4 and fe5 since i did not play them) onwards there is Noah, a cavalier that is kinda balanced and lowen also appeared too. in fe11 there is frey. can it be considerd an archetype? User:Airheadsrock. 3.58pm, Feb 12 2010
 * Someone suggusted something like that before, but the answer is still no. Mostly because what you are proposing seems to be just "third cavalier" or "cavalier who isn't the Cain or the Abel". It just isn't distinctive enough.--Otherarrow 09:52, February 12, 2010 (UTC)

So you mean it doesn't appear in alot of games? airheadsrock. 13.05, 13 Feb 2010
 * No, I mean it just isn't notable. For example, one of the only things Franz has in common with Lowen, Noah, Matthis, Frey, etc is that they are all cavaliers that are not either the Cain or Abel. I really don't think we should include an archetype where the main requirement is that it does not fit into another archetype.--Otherarrow 10:08, February 13, 2010 (UTC)

Aloof pre-promote swordmaster/other class archetype?
I've noticed a trend in some pre-promoted swordmaster and similar classes. They tend to be strong for pre-promote and join mid to late game. They have a calm and aloof personality, and are occasionally somewhat ruthless. They'll sometimes become the mentor of another sword-user (similar to the sage mentor-merric archetype).

Examples: I haven't played many FE's outside of japan some I'm unsure about characters from FE 2, 4, 5, and 6, but I definitely think this is a legitimate archetype. -RedBaron45 02:59, February 21, 2010 (UTC)
 * Shanan (FE 4) (?)
 * Shanam (FE 5) (?)
 * Karel (FE 6/7)
 * Stefan (FE 9/10)
 * Volke (FE 10)


 * I wouldn't really think so. The characters and most of the description gives an impression that the archetype is "Nabarl, but promoted!" which, doesn't really make for a distinctive archetype.--Otherarrow 03:09, February 21, 2010 (UTC)


 * I guess you're right. Maybe it's a sub-archetype of Nabarl? Like Ephidel to Gharnef? I definitely see a trend. - RedBaron45 03:24, February 21, 2010 (UTC)
 * Prehaps so. The Shanan? Since this is a archetype about playables, you may want to find something in gameplay they have in common, such as they are all fairly good for prepromoted units (this would disqualify Shanam btw), or that they have Nabarl-esque growths. Since you noticed this, I'd leave that to you, but since this is a subtype of a (mostly) class specific archetype, try to keep the classes consistent. Sorry Volke.--Otherarrow 03:34, February 21, 2010 (UTC)

I'll add it as the Shanan. Some also join with high crit-rate weapons like Nabarl (Stefan - Vague Katti, Karel - Wo Dao). As far as Volke goes, he fits most of the requirements (the personality, he's an amazing unit for a pre-promote in FE 10, he joins in Part 4, the Assassin class in FE 4 is pretty much a swordmaster with more crits and knives). - RedBaron45 04:30, February 21, 2010 (UTC)

another question: will linde archetype qualify
i think its kinda common as linde has high magic and then there's lilina (sorry i dont play 123459 and 10). And then there's lute in fe8. Lute also has high magic. Idk if nino qualifys but then every game has at least a female mage right? --airheadsrock 7.45p.m. 22 February 2010 (because i forgot the date)
 * I think "female mage with high magic" is far too general. A lot of mages in the games are female, and high magic is kinda a requirement to be a good magical unit.--Otherarrow 13:39, February 23, 2010 (UTC)

"Heartless" enemy general story archetype?
I've noticed that in the Fire Emblem games I've played there has been a enemy general who is usually introduced as a character well before they are actually fought. They are often very close to the main antagonist. They have an bitterly cruel and heartless personality and do not care whatsoever about they safety of their soldiers. Many address fellow generals with great disrespect. They play a major role in the plot and can even manipulate some of the games events, especially early on. The "Camus" and "Lorenz" characters will frequently question their morals and loyalty. They are very narcissistic.

They include (from the games I've played): RedBaron45 04:31, March 2, 2010 (UTC)
 * Hilda (FE4)
 * Narshen (FE6)
 * Sonia (FE7)
 * Valter (FE8)
 * Petrine (FE9)
 * Valtome (FE10)
 * This seems to heavily borrow people from the Michalis archetype and only two of them are really that close to the main villian. Not to mention that there seems to be a divide at whether they are taken seriously and to what degree. Besides this seems to be mainly a rehash of Michalis, and potentially Gharnef, archetypes. So I'd would not include it. And, no offense, but I am getting kinda tired of people constantly proposing archetypes and fiddling with them. There are many far more important pages that could use the work instead.--Otherarrow 09:35, March 2, 2010 (UTC)

I've actually edited much more than the Archetype talk page. I understand why you're angry, but I'm not the right person to take it out on. I'll stay away from the Archetype page if that's what you want.RedBaron45 22:45, March 2, 2010 (UTC)

Tear Ring Saga Characters
Is it ok if I link to tear ring saga characters on this page? A couple of FE archtypes show up in that game.
 * I personally have no problem with it, but some other users might be upset.--Otherarrow 18:04, April 17, 2010 (UTC)

The Maria Archetype?
I think this a pretty common trend. Around mid-early game - about Chapter 7-10, A young girl, usually of some nobility, that is usually held agains their will in some way before joining. They usually have even less usuability because of their low base stats, but they often have good luck growths and determination to stay on the battlefield. They also usually have some relations to other characters in the plot that make give them importance at certain times. Look at it -
 * FE 1 Maria
 * FE3: Yumina
 * FE4: Rana
 * FE5: Tina
 * FE6: Lilina - Not a healer, but that's her only flub.
 * FE8: Tana - Ephraim's Route, though she's not a healer, or a magical unit, she fits everything else perfectly.

Thoughts?
 * FE9: Mist

Hasofcd 16:08, June 10, 2010 (UTC)

L'Arachel should qualify as well.

Nolankryptonite 18:19, January 11, 2012 (UTC)

Hardin(Book 2) archetype
Shouldn't there be an archetype based off Hardin? It would be for characters that started out a good friend of the protagonist but for various reasons end up falling to evil and becoming the most powerful enemy in the game.

Clear Characters in this would be


 * Hardin


 * Alvis


 * Zephiel


 * Lyon

Possible members are


 * Yurius


 * Nergal


 * Black Knight

Emperor Hardin 20:44, July 15, 2010 (UTC)
 * SPOILERS: Hmm. Well, when and for how long had they have to have been friendly? Hardin and Zephiel are "good" for a whole game, while Alvis and Lyon are only "good" in the backstory. (Note good is in quotes. This is not the place for discussing that) As for possible members, Yurius and Black Knight are right out. The games don't do a good job of showing what is Yurius and what is because of his possession, and his former kindess is only mentioned in passing and never shown. Zelgius was aligned to Sephiran from the beginning. Nergal may be out, since we only truly see "good" Nergal in very brief flashbacks.--Otherarrow 02:11, July 17, 2010 (UTC)
 * Yeah thats true about Nergal, his backstory is hard to find. Even moreso for Yurius. I think Alvis fits because he shows up as an ally on the map and seems nice at first, however his brother doesn't exactly speak kindly of him. Lyon never was game ally but his friendship with Ephraim and Eirika was mentioned enough to qualify.
 * Emperor Hardin 02:40, July 17, 2010 (UTC)
 * Emperor Hardin 02:40, July 17, 2010 (UTC)

I'm not royal ready yet.
I've noticed in the fireemblem series that there is a number of people with royal blood who didn't want to rule but had no other choice, or something similar, like they didn't feel they deserve it.

&#123;&#123;Bowserclass}} Do you see merric&#39;s Grr face? &#91;and if i caught a mistake of yours pretend I slapped you.&#93; 00:00, July 17, 2010 (UTC)
 * FE1: minerva
 * FE4: Levin
 * FE8: Lyon and joshua
 * FE10: Elincia and Pelleas and kurthnaga

The fourth game has Levn who kinda reminds me of Joshua. We already have the Levn archetype however, so maybe it won't fit?

Emperor Hardin 00:49, July 17, 2010 (UTC)
 * We don't need this. This seems like a sloppy combo of the Levn archetype and the fears of young rulers in general. Not every ruler will be able to take over suddenly and be like "yeah! Let's do this! Country running and politics and economics and so on!". I say the parts that are not covered by the Levn archetype are not really worthy of note.--Otherarrow 00:55, July 17, 2010 (UTC)
 * Otherarrow, what do you think of the Archetype I wrote above?
 * Emperor Hardin 01:35, July 17, 2010 (UTC)
 * Emperor Hardin 01:35, July 17, 2010 (UTC)

Could be Meg considered an Draug? she comes early in micaiah team, the first armor knight.

Linde did'n started an archetype, doesn't she? since there have been an female mage, that always will turn out a very powerful unit, lilina, nino, lute, illyana, sonia (FE2).
 * Let's see. A archetype based solely on gender really sounds too general. Also, the "will always turn out good" is questionable. I've heard as much people say that Lilina, Nino, and Ilyana are the worst mages of their games as I have people who claim they are the best.--Otherarrow 18:41, August 1, 2010 (UTC)

ok, i think that is right

and meg? could she be considered and draug?
 * No. Draugs are considered useful, if for nothing else, for the fact that they can take damage that would kill other units due to high defense. On the other hand, I've heard that Meg is often considered one of the worst units in her game.--Otherarrow 18:49, August 1, 2010 (UTC)
 * Well Arden is listed as a member of the Draug archetype, and the poor guy is one of the worst units in the series due to poor movement in a game with large maps.
 * Emperor Hardin 19:03, August 1, 2010 (UTC)
 * Would Soren be considered a Levn of 9 and 10? He is Ashnard's son and technically royalty of both Goldoa and Daein, although his Branded status makes him a reject from either. The important thing, I think, is that it's a very difficult fact to learn on one's own, plus he is met early on as a Greil Mercenary in both games, which is somewhat close to traveler. - Digitaldrummer
 * No, because Soren never learns he is a prince. All the other Levn's knew of their royalty/importance before becoming travelers.--Otherarrow 10:14, August 12, 2010 (UTC)
 * Would Soren be considered a Levn of 9 and 10? He is Ashnard's son and technically royalty of both Goldoa and Daein, although his Branded status makes him a reject from either. The important thing, I think, is that it's a very difficult fact to learn on one's own, plus he is met early on as a Greil Mercenary in both games, which is somewhat close to traveler. - Digitaldrummer
 * No, because Soren never learns he is a prince. All the other Levn's knew of their royalty/importance before becoming travelers.--Otherarrow 10:14, August 12, 2010 (UTC)
 * No, because Soren never learns he is a prince. All the other Levn's knew of their royalty/importance before becoming travelers.--Otherarrow 10:14, August 12, 2010 (UTC)

Malledus/Tactician Archetype?
Ever since FE1 (or Shadow Dragon) there's sometimes been a tactician/advisor/strategist in the army or kingdom that gives advice to the main character. Here are some examples:


 * Malledus (FE1/FE11)
 * Jeigan (FE3/FE12)
 * Oifey (FE4 Gen 1)
 * Levn (FE4 Gen 2)
 * August and Dorias (FE5)
 * Merlinus (FE6)
 * Soren (FE9)
 * Sounds about right. Go for it.--Otherarrow 23:31, August 14, 2010 (UTC)

Could Marcus (FE7) and Oswin be included in this archetype? They kind of advise Eliwood and Hector respectively, but it's not totally prominent...

I think there's a Castor archetype
I think that there is a Castor archetype. I can only think of one character in this archetype: Heather. Anyways, characters in this archetype are either working for theives, or are theives. They are doing this, usually to help their sick mother.--Black Dragon Laguz 23:16, August 14, 2010 (UTC)
 * You'd have Castor and Heather....maybe Dorcas if you stretch it out a bit. Aside from that small thing, these characters have nothing in common, different classes, different personalities...--Otherarrow 23:31, August 14, 2010 (UTC)

RE:Malledus/Tactician Archetype?
Wouldn't Sothe, Micaiah, and Izuka (kinda) Fit here?

Also for the Castor Archetype response, Just because they aren't they same class, doesn't mean they don't fit into the theoretical archetype. Look at the Levn Archtype or Gotoh Archetype.

micaiah is a lord so no, Sothe maybe, Izuka is just a moron, and he never has a good plan that is used either. I thought Seth from Sacred Stones should get in but...Killinngedge 05:19, September 23, 2010 (UTC)Killingedge

Lorenz achetype
dosen't sheema fit this archetype?

loyal to her country and a bit tricky to recruit
 * I supposes she does!--Otherarrow 16:59, August 19, 2010 (UTC)

Another possible Est?
Wouldn't L'archel count as an est? she comes after chapter 10 (a.k.a. late game) at a low level, bad bases, but turns out awesome. She should be included.

I believe you mean L'Arachel. I think the first 'A' is capitalized, too.--Black Dragon Laguz 02:02, September 1, 2010 (UTC)

I'm not sure if this is an archetype, but
I'm not sure if this is an archetype, but: I think there is an archetype of characters who try to find love, but they wind up alone. I would say Gatrie and Roger fit this archetype, or at least a similar one. The archetype consists of male characters, who are often armored units. Sorry, I'm having trouble thinking right now. Basically, there are similarites between the two aforementioned characters and it seems to be an archetype or something.--Black Dragon Laguz 02:04, August 31, 2010 (UTC)

Bandit Archetype
I was thinking that there is a bandit archetype. what they basically do is harrass near by villages and is usually defeated early on by the Player's army. Since the Soothsires are the first ones to fit under that archetype it would be fitting to name it after them.

Groups who would fall into this cataegory would be


 * Soothsires (fe1/11)
 * Raman thieves (fe3/ 12)
 * Lifis bandits(fe5)
 * Ganelon bandits (fe7)
 * Zawana's bandits (fe9)
 * Laguz bandits (fe10)

If I made any mistakes (missing a group or did not properly name them) just leave another comment and correct me.

It seems like it's an Archetype. But...I don't know. I'm not too good, with Archetypes.--Black Dragon Laguz 01:57, September 1, 2010 (UTC)

Thought of another: the Raman thieves from Monsho no nazo.-- Bravesword 15:17,september 7,2010

Jeorge Archetype?
Wouldn't there be a Jeorge Archetype of Low level, Pre-Promoted, Snipers that join mid game that often join with a Silver Bow? Also Later Jeorges are rather wealthy and Join with a Gem of some sorts.

People in the Archetype include (I havent played FE2-5 so those not included :/):

Jeorge (FE1/11)

Igrene (FE6)

Klein (FE6)

Louise (FE7)

Innes (FE8)

Tomas (FE12)

Shinon (FE9)

You could also add Shinon from FE9 and also, some of the Jeorges happeen to become or are the Gordin's teacherKillinngedge 08:40, September 5, 2010 (UTC) Killingedge

I don't like adding Shinon because he joins early game and comes with an Iron bow. Altthough you could make him fit Joerachi 15:19 September 5, 2010 (EST) Joerachi

Yeah, but he leaves and comes back later with a brave bow so thats what im going byKillinngedge 05:17, September 23, 2010 (UTC)Killngedge

Could Felgus qualify as an Ogma?
I know Felgus is technically not of the mercenary class(it isn't present in that game, even though Hero is), but his background as a mercenary seems to fit with that archetype. Stats and growth wise he seems balanced and above average, not to mention that he can fight pretty good while dismounted. In a way, the Free Knight class is kind of more like a mounted mercenary than a cavalier limited to swords. AxeFighterBarst 23:48, September 14, 2010 (UTC)
 * If you think he is, then add him.--Otherarrow 20:45, September 17, 2010 (UTC)

Wendell Archetype?
I've just realized there might be an archetype of a promoted magic user (usually a sage), that serves as a teacher or mentor to a young mage (usually the Merric character).AxeFighterBarst 19:17, September 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * Wendell (FE1/FE3/FE11/FE12)
 * Sety (FE5)
 * Pent (FE7)
 * Saleh (FE8)
 * Calill (FE9)

Just a thought, but wouldn't Cecilia (FE6) fit the criteria? True, all others are sages, but Wendell a originally a bishop, and the definition listed above says "a promoted magic user", with a sage usually, but not always, being the case. In addition, Cecilia acts as the teacher for Roy, but more importantly, she is a teacher to Lilina, who is a young mage (not the Merric character however). Thoughts?99.72.226.75 04:13, April 9, 2011 (UTC)Regamus

FE8 and the Arran/Samson archetype
Trueblade74- I know you get Innes/Duessel and Saleh/Knoll in the same army in Chapter 15, but that doesn't mean they still can't be part of the Arran/Samson archetype, you know. Otherarrow, why'd you delete my comments?
 * When did I delete your comments? Anyway, the whole point of the Arran and Samson thing is you pick one over the other, you can't get both. If you just get the other later, then it is not an example.--Otherarrow 20:57, September 17, 2010 (UTC)

Tear Ring Saga's Jeigan
Considering Raffin, has good growths, average base stats, and is able to promote to a unique class, does he really qualify as a Jeigan at all? I wouldn't even count him as an Oifey.

Personally I'd consider Garo, Tear Ring Saga's Jeigan as he has high base stats for that point in the game, is older then the other characters, and cannot promote.

Emperor Hardin 18:48, October 13, 2010 (UTC)

I don't know much about Tear Ring Saga, but I have heard a lot from different people that Garo is the Jeigen, while Raffin is sort of considered an Oifey. However, concerning Raffin, the fact that he gets promoted in Chapter 10 without having to use a Dragon Flute makes him end up better than just "decent", which is usually what an Oifey ends up as. That's my two cents... --'--Charged151 - any replies to my Talk page  -' 22:59, November 7, 2010 (UTC)

Tiki Archetype
Tiki archetype having a Manakete who can transforms into a divine dragon by using the divine stone. Or a powerful Manakete transforms into dragon like Tiki, Fae, Myrrh and Nagi.
 * So basically, every playable Manakete who isn't Bantu? Sorry, but that doesn't seem like an Archetype to me, just a class list. Maybe if you were more specific? (Are these characters similar personality wise or stat wise?)--Otherarrow 10:37, November 16, 2010 (UTC)

The Julian archetype
I am not sure if all the Julian archetype thieves are like this, but Julian can actually be powerful when trained. I have found Matthew to be at least somewhat powerful, also. So, perhaps the archetype should be described as starting out weak, but can be at least somewhat powerful when trained. Black  Dragon   Laguz  22:53, February 13, 2011 (UTC)

Could Lute be an exception?
The Merric archetype labels the character as a "male" mage, but Lute seems to follow most of the other patterns of Merrics: she is the first mage you get and quickly becomes a powerful unit despite starting at Level 1. She also has the "unusually intelligent and scholarly" personality that Merrics seem to have as a whole and the social ineptitude that other late Merrics have, albeit a slightly different brand.--PPPSSC

Hmm, well, I don't think Lute could really fit this archetype. You did a good job finding these similarities to Merric, though. But I thought that the Merrics were all trained by some Sage (like Merric was trained by Wendell). Black  Dragon   Laguz  20:23, March 22, 2011 (UTC)

Lakche Archetype
I propose a Lakche archetype be added to the list. There are a few defining characteristics of them:

-Female

-Myrmidon or similar class

-Devoted to the sword due to family relations

-Wants to prove that females can use a sword

-Often rivals the Nabarl character in stats if raised up

-Enjoys sparring

In this archetype, Lakche, Mareeta, Fir, Karla, Marisa, Mia, and Athena fit.

Lakche fits most of the characteristics, since she is female, a sword fighter (myrmidon), devoted to the sword due to her mother Ira, and can end up statistically good. It is never said that she enjoys sparring, though she does use the sword with a passion. As for wanting to prove females can use a sword, that is never mentioned, though when she first appears, she says something about how she hated the way the soldiers were attacking the girls.

Mareeta fits quite a few of the characteristucs as well. She is female, a sword fighter (myrmidon), devted to the sword due to her foster mother Evayle, and is very powerful. However, it is never said about wanting to prove females can use a sword or ennjoing sparring, though she loves training with the sword.

Fir greatly fits the archetype, possibly defining it herself. She is female, a myrmidon, devoted to the sword due to her mother Karla and uncle Karel. She constantly wants to show that females can use a sword (shown in supports with Rutger). Fir is inferior to Rutger overall, but if raised up, she can rival him statistically. Also, she loves sparring, wanting to duel Noah and Rutger, as well as looking for a challenger in supports with Bartre.

Karla may not fit the archetype, as she is an exception to many rules. She is female, but instead of being a myrmidon, she comes promoted, as a swordmaster. She is devoted to the sword, due to her borther Karel. She never says she wants to prove females can use a sword, though this is addressed in supports with Farina. Karla can't measure up to a well-trained Guy, however, and it is implied she dislikes sparring, as it is said she hates the sword, though this might be remedied later, as she is constantly sparring with Bartre.

Marisa fits the archetype characteristics well. She is female, a myrmidon, devoted to the sword due to her father (mentioned in supports with Colm). She never really says anything about wanting to prove females can use the sword, though. Marisa can rival Joshua, especially on the Eirika route, and is sometimes even considered better. She loves sparring and training.

Mia also fits the archetype really well. She is female, a myrmidon, and is devoted to the sword, though it never says anything about family. She definitely wishes to prove that females can use the sword, and is easily considered a rival to Zihark, often considered superior. Almost all her supports have to do with training.

Athena can also fit the archetype. She is female, a myrmidon, and seems rather devoted to the sword, such as her pride in her ability, suggested in her recruit conversation with Marth. She never says anything about wanting to prove females' rights to swordmanship, though when Marth asks her how many men she is joinign with, she angrily replies that she is "vun vuman". She ends up really powerful, and can be considered a rival to Navarre. She never mentions anything about loving sparring though.

They all fit the archetype reasonably well, with the possible exception of Karla. Thoughts on this archetype?
 * Let's see...


 * Lakche: Family condition is in. The "females can use a sword" thing is, as you said, never mentioned, doesn't have a Nabarl to rival (Gen II doesn't have a Nabarl, and comparing her to Ira would be unfair, due to the varying conditions). Sparring is never mentioned.
 * Mareeta: Is devoted to the sword due to her foster mother. "Loves sparring" and "wants to proof that girls can use the sword" is never mentioned, and is often seen as inferior to Shiva without the Shooting Star skill (mostly due to availability, although some do consider stats as well)
 * Fir: Fits most of your critria, except for the "rivals the Nabarl" thing, where, while still useable, she is seen as inferior to Rugter, both due to stats and avalibilty.
 * Karla: Comes from a family who uses the sword. However, she is promoted, dislikes sparring, is seen as inferior to both Guy and Karel, and "proving women can use the sword" is, again, never brought up.
 * Marisa: Is pretty much already a Nabarl, the only reason she isn't counted is because Joshua joins first. Anyway, the family condition is in, sparring and training is in, but she is seen as inferior to Joshua (again, availability mostly), although she is still seen as a good unit in her own right. Along with Mia, she is probably the closest to actually fitting your criteria.
 * Mia: Some have argued that she is more of a Ogma than any sort of Nabarl variation. Fits most of the critiria, although she is the only one who joins noticeably before the Nabarl she rivals.
 * Athena: Of what limited dialouge she has, none of it fits your criteria. Her past is a mystery, she never mentions the "girls can use swords" or "likes sparring" thing, and is seen as inferior to Nabarl.
 * It seems in your attempt to make this a distinct archetype, you set the bar too high, as only Marisa, Mia, and arguably Fir actually fit with most of your criteria. However, this is only the opinions and interpretations of one user, if anyone has any comments, go right ahead I guess. If there actually is an archetype here, it is more recent than FE4 though.

EDIT: I'm not implying any of these are bad units, in case my post gave that impression.--Otherarrow 18:40, March 27, 2011 (UTC)

ARRGH

The page got destroyed
Sorry, one of my idiot friends from SF destroyed the Archetype page. Someone fix it PLOX. Trueblade74 22:10, March 30, 2011 (UTC)

Since when did you have friends from SF?

Cains and Abels.
I think that both the Cain and Abel archetypes either need more broad, or need to be combined completely into one overarching archetype. Looking back at every pair, you will notice the games are anything but consistent on who is the Cain, and who is the Abel. Sometimes the colors change for personalities but the stats stay in accordance to the colors. Some staples of the Cain archetype, like high luck (The original Cain had high luck growth in every game he has been in, remake or not) switches over to the non red knight/non brash knight/non-skill/speed knight. I think the whole category needs to be joined under one umbrella, "Cain and Abel," listing, with the pairs from all the games they are present in labelled. It seems people like to claim that the pairing was only first jumbled up with Fire emblem 9: Path of Radiance, but it is quite clear looking back at the mere original pair that things are not consistent at all, and I utterly have no idea why people act like its consistent, when intelligent systems switched the HP growth supriroty between the two multiple times between the first and third game, and their remakes. The actual "Abel," archetype itself claims that Abel had superior luck and HP growth and its completely untrue. A lot of clean up and research into the actual growths and bases of the characters need to be done by the article writers. Not all green knights are kind. Not all kind knights have high strength growth. This archetype has to be one of the least stable of all the current ones listed, yet people still add people to the list under very loose standards like, "They are nice and green armored." Sain and Oscar alone break that.

Medeus Archetype?
Didn't Medeus start an archetype, too? I mean in close to every game there is a fierce beast (most likely, but not neccesary a dragon) as last boss, just like Medeus. This is what I think it could be:


 * Medeus (FE1/3/11/12)
 * Doma (FE2)
 * Idenn (FE6)
 * Fire Dragon (FE7)
 * Fomortiis (FE8)
 * Dheginsea (FE10)

Out of these, Idenn is unique as she's the only female, while Dheginsea is the only one not fought as last boss. I'm not sure if I should count Julius's tome Loptous too, as it is also something like Medeus, but not really a charakter but just a tome. Nitzudan(Diskussion) http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/meerundmehr/images/7/73/Metroid-Icon3.gif 10:01, April 30, 2011 (UTC)
 * The Fire Dragon is even less of a character than Loptous, just saying. So basicly, with one exception, this archtype is "every final boss, except Yurius, who you considered anyway, Veld, and Ashera" Why not Ashera anyway? I could see something with "final boss is a token dragon" or something, where you could fit in Medeus, Gerxel, Fire Dragon, and Idenn, but that isn't really much of a archetype. Do these characters have anything else in common?--Otherarrow 11:15, April 30, 2011 (UTC)
 * Well, it was just an idea. They do also have in common that they don't have much influence to the storyline. I didn't count Ashera as she is more like an Ephidel for me (yeah, you can laugh at me for this oppinion) as she is used by the Gharnef charakter Sephiran to destroy/judge the world. As already mentioned, I just thought of fierce beasts like dragons as this archetype so Veld doesn't fit, as he is a human. They also have in common that they are immune (or at least high resistant) to normal weapons, but this also applies to all final bosses. Well, just mark this idea as "not right", as it simply includes all Final Bosses who aren't human. Nitzudan(Diskussion) http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/meerundmehr/images/7/73/Metroid-Icon3.gif 11:31, April 30, 2011 (UTC)

Deghinsea
Wouldn't he count as a Camus? Fabsu93 18:27, May 21, 2011 (UTC)

Est=Elincia?
Looking at older posts, I see that there was obviously some confusion with some people, because they mistook Elincia with someone else, namely, Erika from Sacred Stones.

Elincia joins the game at chapter 26 of the game. There is only 3 more after that one, counting the endgame. She starts out as a level one, tier two unit. Up until this point, all the other people you have been recruiting were moderately, if not vastly, higher level than level 1, tier 2, like Shinon. You get him back in chapter 19, at about level 2, maybe, almost 10 chapters previously, so if you had been using him, by this point, he is going to be a lot higher level that that. That is one of many tier two units the game had been throwing at you for a while, with other tier two units like Stefan and Devdan joining as early as chapter 15 and 16 respectively.

So how a level 1, tier two unit with absolustely no experience, joining 3 chapters before the end isn't an Est? Then this game has no Est at all. Her stats aren't impressive at all, but she has slightly above average growths in a few areas, and she ends up making a great mounted healer, with better chances at being a healer than Mist (though they are semi close at max level). It's just, to make her actual usable, you have to heal abuse/use her to kill absoultely everything for about two chapters at least before end game, letting her soak up every bit of experience possible...

Sounds like an Est to me...so how exactly doesn't she qualify then? Elido 11:23, June 3, 2011 (UTC)

Possible Changes
Leaf as Nyna Archetype

Leaf should fit the Nyna archetype beacuae he is the prince of lenster a country that got invaded by Thracia led by Trabant after he killed his parents then his grandfather then invaded by the Grandbell empire and orchestracted by veld and the child hunts occour and his country is ruled by blume from the grandbell empire, he escaped with the help of Fin and is hunted by the emipire for his head.

Areone as Camus

Areone should be a Camus, he never had ill to Celice and the army like Ishtar but he fights against them even though Celice and Altenna don`t want to for his father and his country.despite trabant being harsh an Altenna he is kind to her and Celice and Levin thinks that he`s more reasonable than his father.

Aran over Meg for Draug

About Meg being a Draug-Draugs are supposed to be from-the-go tanks. She joins early, but she is by no means tankish. She has a base defense of 10, losing to Aran (admittedly, Aran only has 11. However, 11 is the most common base defense for Draug archetype characters), and she isn't increasing much with her 35% growth. Aran's got a massive 70% growth, which is higher than all the other Draugs. However, RD growth rates are generally higher, but still, generally, Draugs have a 50%-60% range. Aran is also rather sluggish, like most Draugs, having a 35% growth. Meg, on the other hand, has a 65% growth in speed, throwing out that factor for being a Draug. Aran is much more of a Draug than Meg in everything except class.

Dheginsea as a Camus

While I could see it being arguable, I feel as if Dheginsea belongs as a Hardin, and the Hardin and Camus arcehtypes can't really overlap. Even if Dheginsea were a Camus, he wouldn't be a Camus, but a Murdock, as he bears ill will to many in the enemy party (Tibarn, Ike, Sothe, etc.) while respecting others (Caineghis, Elincia, Naesala to a degree, the herons).

Astram Archetype

Perhaps a polar opposite to the Midia archetype, the Astram archetype would be an archetype that appears around the same time as the Midia archetype (mid to late game), as an enemy. Generally male, and usually a Hero or Paladin. Though close to the royal family, they are being tricked or forced into serving the other side. They can be recruited through some revelation brought to them by a character from the other side (their master, the Midia character, another general). I can see Astram, Amalda/Conomool, Percival, Harken as part of this archetype. Faval/Asaello and Haar (FE9) coudl qualify with a bit of stetching.

Cecilia as a Wendell

With the new definition, I suppose this isn't true, but according to an older definition of the Wendell archetype, the qualifications were a promoted magic user that taught another. Cecilia fits those qualifications. The new definition, however, is class-specific to Sage, so I suppose that Cecilia, a Valkyrie, no longer qualifies.

Traitor Archetype

I'm not talking about recruitable enemies, I'm talking about defectable allies. There really aren't many cases, as the first one to come mind for me is Orson. Jill, Zihark, and the Black Knight all follow him. Maybe even Katarina. However, in FE3, Wolf, Sedgar, and Vyland-former allies in FE1-are non-recruitable enemies. They could possibly qualify, if an archetype can even be found here.

Other Cavalier Archetype

There was some debate some time back about a third cavalier archetype, but no definite connection could be found. However, there is one: they all join early. And I'm talking super early. Cecil (FE3/FE12), Fin (FE4/5), Lowen (FE7), Franz (FE8), and Frey (FE11) all join in the first chapter (in Franz's case, second, but its called Ch.1). They all serve the kingdom of the main lord (Fin in FE5) and are generally new knights (Fin in FE4).

Ishtore as Camus

I'm confused as why Ishtore is not considered a Camus. He is said to be as benevolent as his sister. If its due to importance, well Eagler is a Camus. You could argue that Eagler is the Camus of Lyn Mode, but I don't see Wallace as a Gotoh.

Levin Archetype needs Renaming

Sorry, folks, but I don't think Levin himself is the very first to qualify in his archetype. We've all forgotten..... Sirius! The definition of the Levin Archetype is "a character posing as a simple traveler who joins early or mid-game, and is later revealed to be royalty, noblity or otherwise of plot-critical heritage." Camus pretends to be a simple mercenary in the guise of Sirius. He joins early-game. And while he's not royalty or nobility (actually, he might be nobility) he has plot-critical heritage as General Camus the Sable. Even more, his heritage is more than plot-critical: it's also gameplay-critical. SInce he's Camus, only he can awake Nyna from the spell in the final archetype. Therefore, the Levin Archetype should be renamed to the Sirius Archetype, with Sirius as the first character.

God this was long. But yeah, these are all changes that need to be considered.99.72.224.88 04:29, July 7, 2011 (UTC)Regamus
 * Aran As Draug over Meg: Debatable, but Aran isn't an armor knight, for one. I'll let the more "archetype obsessed" out there decide there though.
 * Dheginea as Camus: Dheginea would be a Murdock if anything. As far as I know, we don't have him as a Camus, but someone may have changed that behind my back. Levail is the Camus for RD.
 * Cecilia as Wendell: On one hand, Cecilia isn't a Bishop/Sage. On the other hand, she does fit the characterization requirement (she is Lilina and Roy's teacher) and does fit the "Magic Jagen" the current Wendell suggests.
 * Traitors:An interesting one. Not counting characters who appear in one game, but become enemies in another (such as the Wolfguard), I can see something going with this but the only ones I can see are TRS!Zeek, Orson, the Black Knight, and maybe Katarina. Jill and Zihark may be a controversial case, considering that you literally recruit them from one player controlled party into another player controlled party.
 * Third Cavalier: I think this works more than others; I feel the problem with other attempts is that they attempt to connect it to Cain/Abel, which doesn't really work I feel. However, Fin only counts in FE5, where he isn't a new knight, and it's implied that Frey's been around longer than Cain/Abel.
 * Ishtore as Camus: I am probably going to get some flak for this, but Ishtore is too minor a character. Aside from his relation to Blume/Ishtar/Teeny, he is basically the typical "Oneoff boss who was decent enough, but you had to kill him anyway", while Camus types are usually more plot important.
 * Levn: Well, Camus isn't royalty (I'm pretty sure the "plot important heritage" was used to justify only Ninian/Nils), but if we count Sirius, we will have to count Jeorge as well. However, the later members do take inspiration from Levn moreso than they do from Jeorge/Camus.

And that is all I will say on this. Let the more "archetype obsessed" of you figure it out.--Otherarrow 12:22, July 7, 2011 (UTC)

Are we allowed to add characters in this page?
Are we allowed to add characters in the Archetype page if its necessary? Like Example: Tiki's archetype are dragons that are playable like Fae (FE6), Ena (FE9/10), Kurthnaga (FE10), & Nagi (FE11/12).  King Marth 64  (talk • other wikis) http://i1116.photobucket.com/albums/k576/DigiPen92/25px-Marthsprite.gif 01:52, July 12, 2011 (UTC)

Maretta's Archetype
What do you think of this Maretta's archetype?

She is a Swordswoman in early chapters and her archetype should have a females that are Swordswoman and add few males to like "Edward (FE10)".


 * Mareeta (FE5)
 * Fir (FE6)
 * Karel (FE7)
 * Mia (FE9/10)
 * Athena (FE11/12)

Any thoughts this should be added to Maretta's or needs to change? --  King Marth 64  http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20101223220719/mario/images/thumb/8/8c/Mushroom.png/15px-Mushroom.png ( talk •  other wikis  •  blogs ) http://i1116.photobucket.com/albums/k576/DigiPen92/25px-Marthsprite.gif http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20110221001435/earthbound/images/c/ca/Peace_Ness.png http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20101223220719/mario/images/thumb/8/8c/Mushroom.png/15px-Mushroom.png http://i1116.photobucket.com/albums/k576/DigiPen92/Luigidance.gif 04:39, August 2, 2011 (UTC)
 * What? This makes no sense. Mareeta isn't exactly early game, neither is Fir. (Machyua and Shiva both join before Mareeta and Rutger joins before Fir), Karel is a male Swordmaster. I don't get the logic behind this "archetype".--Otherarrow 14:02, August 2, 2011 (UTC)
 * My bad, I meant Karla, not Karel. And I think I meant close near the after the begining or after Chapter 5. Sorry for the confusion. X.x --  King Marth 64  http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20101223220719/mario/images/thumb/8/8c/Mushroom.png/15px-Mushroom.png ( talk •  other wikis  •  blogs ) http://i1116.photobucket.com/albums/k576/DigiPen92/25px-Marthsprite.gif http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20110221001435/earthbound/images/c/ca/Peace_Ness.png http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20101223220719/mario/images/thumb/8/8c/Mushroom.png/15px-Mushroom.png http://i1116.photobucket.com/albums/k576/DigiPen92/Luigidance.gif 04:09, August 3, 2011 (UTC)
 * Let's see, Mareeta: Chapter 12(!), Fir: Chapter 9, Karla: Chapter 31x(!) Promoted Unit, Mia: Chapter 7, Athena: Chapter 6x. They don't join around the same time. I don't see any connecting link behind this besides "girl myrmidon", and you didn't even use every girl Myrmidon (Also, Karla is a swordmaster).--Otherarrow 10:00, August 3, 2011 (UTC)

Wendy Archtype
i noticed that amelia wendy and meg are all young girls who are unpromoted knights but with more skill and speed. A lot more actually. but wendy probably isnt the first of this archtype, i dont know about the japanese FE's 84.26.42.162 18:10, August 25, 2011 (UTC)

Feena's Archetype
I think of a new archetype of Feena, which one of them are Dancers and Lara's part of the starting of FE5 is a Thief and promote to Dancer and Leanne's is a Heron, but is similar to Dancers/Bards in FE9/10.
 * Feena (FE3/12)
 * Sylvia (FE4 Generation 1)
 * Leen/Laylea (FE4 Generation 2)
 * Lara (FE5) - Promoted from her thief class
 * Lalam (FE6)
 * Ninian (FE7)
 * Tethys (FE8)
 * Leanne (FE10) - Does she possibly count since she is a Heron, not a Dancer due to No Dancers in Tellius games?

And should we have a Sub-Archetype of Bards who are similar to Dancers, but they are males and they plays Music instead of Dancing? --  King Marth 64  http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20101223220719/mario/images/thumb/8/8c/Mushroom.png/15px-Mushroom.png ( talk •  other wikis  •  blogs ) http://i1116.photobucket.com/albums/k576/DigiPen92/25px-Marthsprite.gif http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20110221001435/earthbound/images/c/ca/Peace_Ness.png http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20101223220719/mario/images/thumb/8/8c/Mushroom.png/15px-Mushroom.png http://i1116.photobucket.com/albums/k576/DigiPen92/Luigidance.gif 17:54, August 29, 2011 (UTC)
 * No offense, but this seems like more of a class list than a character archetype. What do these people have in common? Are they in similar story conditions? Do they have similar personalities?--Otherarrow 18:10, August 29, 2011 (UTC)
 * So, we only need an Archetype with Similar Story Conditions and Same Personalities than just a class? I was kinda thinking of the Archetpe and Sub-Archetype for Feena but, I wasn't to sure. --  King Marth 64  http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20101223220719/mario/images/thumb/8/8c/Mushroom.png/15px-Mushroom.png ( talk •  other wikis  •  blogs ) http://i1116.photobucket.com/albums/k576/DigiPen92/25px-Marthsprite.gif http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20110221001435/earthbound/images/c/ca/Peace_Ness.png http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20101223220719/mario/images/thumb/8/8c/Mushroom.png/15px-Mushroom.png http://i1116.photobucket.com/albums/k576/DigiPen92/Luigidance.gif 18:24, August 29, 2011 (UTC)

Shiida Archetype
I thinking that a new Archetype of Shiida that has to do with love interests or crushes with the lord characters like Marth. Usually some of her archetypes are females to love Male Lords, few are males love to Females like Cellica, Lyn, and Micaiah. A few of them are Pegasus Knights & Mounted and some of them aren't. A few games that have support or love conversations and a few of them are female lords married to the other male lords. Add another character if I missed it or anything should take out of this list? Any suggestions? --  King Marth 64  ( talk •  other wikis  •  blogs ) http://i1116.photobucket.com/albums/k576/DigiPen92/th_20px-Marthsprite.gif http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20110221001435/earthbound/images/c/ca/Peace_Ness.png 19:32, September 9, 2011 (UTC)
 * Shiida (FE1/3/11/12) - The love interest of Marth and married at the end of FE3/12.
 * Catria (FE1/3/11/12) - Has a Crush on Marth (according to her death quote from FE3).
 * Cellica (FE2) - married Alm at the end of FE2.
 * Malliesia (FE3/12) - Has a Crush on Marth, but decided that she would let Shiida wed Marth in FE3.
 * Diadora (FE4 First Generation) - The wife of Siglud
 * Yuria, Rana, Lakche, Phee, Leen, Patty, or Teeny (FE4 Second Generation) - The one of love interests of Celice according to Some of his lovers in the Love Growth.
 * Nanna (FE5) - The love interest of Leaf and married after the events of FE4.
 * Lilina, Thany, Sue, Lalum, Cecilia, or Sophia (FE6) - The one of the love interests of Roy and married at the end of FE6.
 * Rath, Eliwood, or Hector (FE7) - The one of the love interests of Lyn and married at the end of FE7.
 * Ninian, Fiora, or Lyn (FE7) - The one of the love interests of Eliwood and married at the end of FE7.
 * Farina, Florina, or Lyn (FE7) - The one of the love interests of Hector and married at the end of FE7.
 * Seth, Innes, or Saleh (FE8) - The one of the love interests of Eirika and married at the end of FE8.
 * Tana or L'Arachel (FE8) - The one of the love interests of Ephraim and married at the end of FE8.
 * Marcia (FE9) - Has a Crush on Ike
 * Aimee (FE9/FE10) - Has a Crush on Ike
 * Sothe (FE10) - He married Micaiah at the End of FE10.
 * Wolf, Jeorge, and Warren (FE12) - One of the potential love interests of My Unit as a Female Form only.
 * These characters have no relation other than "they might maybe be the main character's love interest, or at least have a crush on them or something" There might be something for actual love interests, but listing everyone who might kinda have a crush is silly, and the love/support system makes this difficult. (also, why is Yuria there? She has a negative love growth with Celice!)--Otherarrow 21:34, September 9, 2011 (UTC)
 * Why My Unit included? She not a lord character.... --Satria Hitam 17:34, September 10, 2011 (UTC)


 * I agree with Otherarrow as far as most of the list goes. Trying to establish an Archetype like this would actually require some work. I think it would have to do with who would be "the most likely" to be an official couple. Like for instance, Shiida is married to Marth at the end of FE3/12, which is a definite official couple. While out of all of Roy's potential love interests, Lilina seems the most likely. Just throwing my two cents here, but I think Catria, Malliesia, Yuria (most definitely), Lakche, Leen, Patty, Teeny, Thany, Sue, Lalum, Cecilia, Sophia, Rath, Eliwood, Fiora, Lyn (in Eliwood's case), Farina, Florina, L'Arachel, Marcia, and Aimee should be removed from the list if we're following the "most likely to be an official couple/is an official couple" criteria. And all mention of a female My Unit and "any possible love interests" should be removed as well while following the same criteria. But like I said, any information for a clear definition of a "Shiida archetype" could use some work. --LittleAl16 20:18, October 24, 2011 (UTC)
 * I guess that could work, and I notice that Cornelius has a archetype that is usually about the Fathers of the Lord Characters in the Fire Emblem games. I go with that with a few adjustments in the list.--  King Marth 64  ( talk •  other wikis  •  blogs ) http://i1116.photobucket.com/albums/k576/DigiPen92/th_20px-Marthsprite.gif http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20110221001435/earthbound/images/c/ca/Peace_Ness.png 21:51, October 24, 2011 (UTC)

Dozah Archetype
I thinking that a new Archetype of Dozah that is something to with the Unrecruitable Boss enemy that betrayed their nation (an Ally Nation) and turns to sided with the antagonist nation or betrays and creates an army for power and fights and gets perished from the Main Lord's army, with the exception that Orson is only playable in Chapter 5x, but he is a boss in Chapter 16 and Ludveck got defeated and still survived. And plus I don't know if the 4 unrecruitable bosses of Disciples of Order in Radiant Dawn would count, since it counts as Betrays Sanaki and fights for Ashera? Add another character if I missed it or anything should take out of this list? Any suggestions? 17:54, November 22, 2011 (UTC)
 * Dozah (FE2)
 * Pamela (FE4)
 * Deet'var (FE4)
 * Wagner (FE6)
 * Devias (FE6)
 * Leygance (FE6)
 * Arcard (FE6)
 * Roartz (FE6)
 * Sigune (FE6)
 * Orson (FE8)
 * Carlyle (FE8)
 * Caellach (FE8)
 * Ludveck (FE10)
 * Lekain (FE10)
 * Numida (FE10)
 * Hetzel (FE10)
 * Valtome (FE10)
 * No. This "archetype" is too vague and too far reaching. There are a lot more FE6 examples (You have Arcard and Roartz's underlings, then you have the Djute clan, then you have Lycian bosses like Erik who sided with Bern and so on.) And then you have to include the likes of Darin and his underlings from FE7. And just about every boss from Chapter 4 of FE4. And Leidrick and all his underlings from Thracia 776. I could go on all day.--Otherarrow 19:11, November 22, 2011 (UTC)

Ok, I got this figured out:

Dozah Archetype: (Original)

The Dozah Archetype is about the the Unrecruitable Boss enemy that betrayed their nation (an Ally Nation) and turns to sided with the antagonist nation or betrays and creates an army for power and fights and gets perished from the Main Lord's army, with the exception that Orson is only playable in Chapter 5x, but he is a boss in Chapter 16 and Ludveck got defeated and still survived.


 * Dozah (FE2)
 * Daccar (FE4)
 * Maios (FE4)
 * Leidrick (FE5)
 * Erik (FE6)
 * Wagner (FE6)
 * Leygance (FE6)
 * Arcard (FE6)
 * Roartz (FE6)
 * Monke (FE6)
 * Sigune (FE6)
 * Darin (FE7)
 * Orson (FE8)
 * Carlyle (FE8)
 * Caellach (FE8)
 * Ludveck (FE10)
 * Izuka (FE10)
 * Lekain (FE10)

Pamela Archetype: (Sub-archetype)

The sub-archetype of the Dozah archetype, a Pamela is usually is also an Unrecruitable Boss enemy who also betrays their nation and helps the Dozah archetype, they are consider more of an underling to the Dozahs and they also fights and gets perished from the Main Lord's army along with the Dozah archetype.


 * Pamela (FE4)
 * Deet'var (FE4)
 * Donovan (FE4)
 * Cuvuli (FE4)
 * Leidrick's underlings (FE5)
 * Devias (FE6) (Helps Leygance)
 * Oro, Robarts, Morgan, Flaer, and Windam (FE6) (Helps Arcard and Roartz)
 * Maral, Kudoka, Brakul, Thoril, Kabul, and Chan (FE6) (Helps Monke)
 * Bauker, Cameron, and Eubans (FE7) (Helps Darin)
 * Numida, Hetzel, and Valtome (FE10) (Helps Lekain)

22:19, December 2, 2011 (UTC)
 * Isn't that the same thing, just with the bosses I mentioned, and split into two? It's still far to far reaching to be a character archetype. Since most of the games involve allied nations getting betrayed, either by another allied nation or by their own generals/nobles (and sometimes even both!), of course there will be bosses from the traitorous side that the Lord will have to fight. I still think this is far too broad, even with your division and attempts at specialization. I'd let this one drop. Sorry.--Otherarrow 01:47, December 3, 2011 (UTC)

Jiol Archetype
I notice that while I was thinking of a new Archetype of Jiol that is something to with Unrecruitable Boss Archetype that has Royal Birth and have more ill-towards to the main character or/and wanted a important item that wanted to do anything to gain power on the continent and they never shown friendly acts towards the main character, they also lead their contry to betray their ally neighbor country like Gra betrays Altea, they are also a Major Boss in the games, most of them are Generals except Langobalt and Ashnard, and they also fought in the mid-game, with the exception of that Lundgren isn't a King, but he wants to other throw of his brother's place and wanted Lyn dead so that he can succeed to the thrown and Ashnard is fought in Final Chapter of ‘’Path of Radiance’’ as a final boss.
 * Jiol (FE1/11)
 * Langobalt (FE4)
 * Lundgren (FE7)
 * Vigarde (FE8)
 * Ashnard (FE9)

22:50, January 11, 2012 (UTC)
 * I'll be honest, what do these guys have in common? I can kinda see Jiol and Langobalt as kinda similar, but that's it. If you have to make excuses (such as with Lundgren) then they don't fit. Also, Vigarde was a zombie controlled by Lyon and Ashnard has nothing in common with the other bosses or even fits your definition. That's only two people.
 * And another thing, and sorry if I sound rude, but this is starting to bother me: why do you keep suggesting "new" archetypes? Nearly all of them are very reaching in definition, and most of them are in fact not reused concepts, but just coincidences or, in the case of this one, things they used once or twice and you try to apply it to other characters. I'm not sure what you are trying to accomplish.--Otherarrow 01:10, January 12, 2012 (UTC)

Orson
Does he qualify as a Hardin? Or does he not because he's not in a very great class?--Thenewguy34 12:08, February 18, 2012 (UTC)

Limstella?
Would Limstella qualify as an Ephidel Archetype?1337 B33FC4K3 04:32, March 4, 2012 (UTC)

I would say no, since she doesn't manipulated anybody. --Fabsu93 14:50, March 4, 2012 (UTC)

Nyna Archetype.
Shouldn't Ephraim and Erikia be on the list?

Erikia-

1) Princess of Invaded country.

2) Escapes from the palace while her father gets killed.

3) Only her and her brother survies the invasion.

4) Invasion of her country orgainised by Lyon (While posessesed by Formotiis)

5) Playable.

Ephraim-

1) Prince of Invaded country. (Yeah, not a girl, but still)

2) He does not technically escape, as he was in Grado when the invasion started, but escaped from being captured by Valter in Chapter 5x

3) Only he and his sister survives the invasion.

4) As above, Lyon organised the invasion.

5) Playable.

Also, both of them are Lords, which is different (classes wise) to most of the others in the Archetype (Nyna- Bishop, Ira- Sword Fighter, Guinevere- Sage and Elincia- Princess Crimea) Though they have the same class as each other.

There is a time for all things, and the end of a thing is better then the beginning. 16:43, March 4, 2012 (UTC)

Response
1. Doesn't need to be playable. 2. "If we include Eirika and Ephraim, we will be including characters like Marth, Ike, and soforth." A similar point was brought up a while ago. Click this link and read what Otherarrow said:  --Thenewguy34 18:46, March 4, 2012 (UTC)

Shiida
Is there any reason that the princess of a country that's been invaded but not always the main country who (generally) joins early to mid-game, has a love interest with another noble, (generally the main character), and for some reason, always has long blue hair? Like:
 * Shiida to Marth (FE1/3/11/12)
 * Lilina to Roy (FE6)
 * Lyn to Eliwood/Hector (FE7)
 * Tana to Ephraim (FE8)
 * Lucia (FE9/10, though she never marries but still is a noble and also follows the hair factor)?

Is this coincidential? --Thenewguy34 19:12, March 4, 2012 (UTC)

Possible Ogma and Narbal fitting?
20:47, March 4, 2012 (UTC)
 * Wouldn't Savor from FE2 qualify as an Ogma, since Savor is hired to joined the main character's army and he's a Mercenary also like Omga did in FE1/11.
 * And Deen from FE2 and Samto from FE3/12 qualify as a Nabarl. Since they're both recruitable swordman enemies and they did work at an antagonistic type job and be recruited to the main character's army afterward like Narbal in FE1/11?

Mostyn
I don't think Helman belongs because Helman originally tried to have Eliwood and Hector killed before he told them to go to Laus. --Thenewguy34 10:46, March 6, 2012 (UTC)

Nyna
Wait, why did we remove Nyna's archetype again? --Thenewguy34 23:13, March 15, 2012 (UTC)
 * Personally, I felt it applied to too few people. The only characters who truly fit, at least as I saw it, were Nyna and Guinevere, the others being awkwardly wedged into it. Not to mention if we made the definition broader, just about every Lord character would fit the archetype, and most of those Lords didn't really have much in common besides the whole "being run out of their country" thing. I hope I am making sense.--Otherarrow 00:00, March 16, 2012 (UTC)

I don't think we should remove them, I think we should just keep it, we do know Ira and Elincia is the Princess of the Invaded Country also and most of their growths and personality most of them are the same too. I think remove this archtype is way too vagued. 00:43, March 16, 2012 (UTC)
 * A poll here on the talk page will accomplish nothing. As for personality wise, the only ones who are similar are Nyna, Guinevere, and maybe Elincia. But having similar growths? Just about everyone in the archetype was a different class! Not to mention, I do recall this archetype in particular being one where just about every entry had some excuse as to why it didn't fit the norm in some way. That is not a good sign.--Otherarrow 01:41, March 16, 2012 (UTC)

Bastian
I think Bastian from FE9/10 qualifies as a Norma, since he matches most of the requirements. While he has higher base stats than other Normas, so does Saleh as well.