Talk: Archetype/Archive 2

The following is a list and description of each archetype. can you explain what an archetype is on the page (or put an external link to wikipedia there) because i and i'm sure many other people have no idea what that is.--Semajdraehs-Talk page- 21:33, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

FE Archetypes

Am I the only one who's noticed that Paola from FE 1 starts a trend? I mean after her there's Yuno, Fiora, Syrene, and Sigrun. These characters should qualify as a new archetype. With the prerequisites being that the character must be of the Pegasus knight or Falkoknight class and have a connection with the other two Peg knights the player is usually given. (PrincessOfSwords 22:00, 8 August 2008 (UTC))

I think the pegesus sisters themselves are an archetype. After all, pegesus knights always come in threes and they always seem to be close.--Otherarrow 00:03, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

Thats a good point. I was kinda disappointed that there were no pegasus sisters in FE 4. You got Ferry in the first half then Phee or Femina in the second half depending on weather or not you paired Furry and Levin. Also can you use the triangle attack in Radiant Dawn? It's hard to tell because when the army splits you've got Sigrun and Tanith in one and Marcia in the other. (PrincessOfSwords 04:40, 9 August 2008 (UTC))

Many of these need to go.

Doga - Knights have high defense? Some of them join early? Not really a meaningful archetype.

Julian - Thieves have high Speed and often join early? Same problem as with Doga. In addition, Chad and Julian actually have good growth rates.

Saji and Maji - Maji has worse Skill growth than Saji, and in FE1 he had better HP growth. Ward has a better Skill growth than Lot. Bartre has better Speed growth than Dorcas. The archetype is right that Fighters often come in pairs (There's an FE5 pair as well), but the information on stats here is just so wrong. Also note that Saji and Maji were part of a trifecta with Barts rather than simply a pair.

Sirius - Basically, a promoted unit that stays fairly good the entire game. Way, way, way too expansive. This archetype, if it listed everyone that went by that description and was not a Gato, could easily be the size of all characters in all other archetypes combined.

Nabarl - Guy is the only one listed with a relation to the "Julian." I think almost every Myrmidon or Swordmaster ever has low Strength but high Skill/Speed, so this doesn't seem like a meaningful archetype either.

Oguma - The reason their growths are usually "balanced" is that most of them are mediocte. Excellent starting stats, though. Oguma and Dieck join in the second chapters of their game, not in the middle. And Zihark doesn't work well in this archetype even if it is kept.

Kain and Abel - I would keep this one, but note that of the original Kain and Abel, that was just the way they started out. Their growth rates reversed the situation later on.

Jaffar as a Gato doesn't really work either.

Summary: A lot of these archetypes are either expressing things that basically everyone in that class also demonstrates, and many others don't really work even by their own criteria. MagusII 03:55, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

I'm no expert on the fandom, but Nabarl deserves a mention for his creation of the Myrmidon class, and the fact that several myrmidon fit personality wise. Sirius could use some simplification, maybe a promoted unit (or just a paladin if you want to narrow it down) that joins middle to late game and is better than/same as the Jeigan stat wise? Oh, and I never got Jaffar as a Gato either.--Otherarrow 04:04, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

Actually Ayra from FE 4 started the Myrmidon class. Nabarl was a hero. (PrincessOfSwords 04:04, 21 August 2008 (UTC))

Yes, but Nabarl (who, might I remind everyone that he was a Mercenary), with his Kill Sword and basic appearance that most myrmidons seem to carry, inspired that class.--Otherarrow 10:26, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

Made some changes. MagusII 04:19, 22 August 2008 (UTC)

I personally think that Jaffar is a Gato. He's pre-promoted, has great stats, and joins late (Chapter 26x, at the earliest). Seems to follow teh trend. I'd also like to nominate Myrrh for to be a Gato. Although she doesn't have great stats at first, she becomes a goddess by lvl. 20. Darth Anathema 21:06, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

Neither of them join endgame,Jaffar isn't strong enough to be a Gato, and like you said, Myrrh has to be trained. Gatos join the at Final chapter or at least one before and have high starting stats, to the point that they can make up for an untrained team. The people you mentioned don't match enough conditions.--Otherarrow 21:33, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

I'm not sure, Jaffar is said to be almost godlike and myrth can kill most units.

--Semajdraehs- any replies to my Talk page 21:38, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

If Jaffar is godlike, than Athos, who is a perfect example, is the ruler of the Multiverse. They don't join late enough, Jaffar is outshined if you promote Matthew or Legault, and as noted Myrrh needs to be trained first. I have nothing against Myrrh or Jaffar, but they are not Gatos--Otherarrow 22:31, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

I don't think I'm buying this Nina Archetype either. It seems entirely story-based, whereas the others have some at least common gameplay component. And is there any reason why Marth, Ellis, and a metric ton of FE4 characters wouldn't qualify as well? MagusII 00:47, 27 September 2008 (UTC)

Like Colm said, it is an archetype of the story. Also,the other archetypes you mentioned are either too vague (Marth's would be just all the lords and Marich's would be everyone in a mage hat...er...every mage.) or too specific (Most of the Seisen no Keifu characters would get about only 2 definite-no-debate hits anyway. Although you do have a point on whether or not story archetypes count.--Otherarrow 04:03, 27 September 2008 (UTC)

That wasn't what I meant, sorry if it wasn't clear. I'm not seeing why Marth, Ellis, and various FE4 characters would not qualify as part of the "Nina" archetype.MagusII 05:18, 27 September 2008 (UTC)

Oh, alright...Well, Marth's biggest problem against this is the reason most lords are not Ninas: he is a guy. I can see Ellis working though (perhaps with Marth as a note like Ephraim is to Eirika), and I can see several of the FE4 cast. If you believe they fit the archetype then add them.--Otherarrow 09:20, 27 September 2008 (UTC)

If gender can make or break whether a character fits the archetype, I would suggest that the qualifications for being in it are rather superficial. And for what it's worth, Guinevere in FE6 doesn't quite fit the qualifications, but her general role in the story seems like she would be in this category, if we keep it.MagusII 19:56, 27 September 2008 (UTC)

Yes well, you have a point. So is it even an archetype at all? If we keep oth genders then we have about 50 or so characters. I now think that the archetype is a bit too, what is the word, broad.--Otherarrow 20:28, 27 September 2008 (UTC)

Nina Archetype

The Nina Archetype IS a storyline componet. Thusly it's a storyline Archetype... so that arguement is contradictatory...

And Jaffar is no Gados...

If story stuff alone is sufficient to make an archetype section, we might as well make a "Marth" archetype for main Lords who are boringly heroic or something. And a "Clarine" for annoying staff chick. And a "Garnef" for evil magical villain dude. The FE series tends to repeat story elements and character personalities quite a bit, and there's just too many of those to list them all and still have this article mean much.MagusII 05:17, 27 September 2008 (UTC)

Est Archetype

I would probably remove Amelia. Because she enters the game in the first half of the game(chapter 9). I would have to consider Zeiss, because he enters your party in level 16 at an unpromoted level 7. I understand the fact that he has very high strength and defense for his level, but he does fit the archetype. Teh Pwnerer 01:38, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

Sophia is a better example than Zeiss, the archetype is about units who start out rather weak late game and if you train them up, they become powerful. Zeiss is pretty good when he starts and does not need the time to train that most Ests do.--Otherarrow 02:22, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

Yes, but Zeiss (a) joins late in the game, (b) is a very low level for the time he is recruited (as stated in the archetype description, and (c) can become very powerful. I understand he's already strong, but he fulfills the criteria. Also, other games have more than one example. Amelia and Ewan are both listed, and they were both FE8. Teh Pwnerer 05:00, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

Out of curiosity, what counts as "late-game" to qualify as an Est? Because Est herself joins in Chapter 18 of 25, Nino joins 26/30, and Amelia 9/21 and Ewan 12/21. Darth Anathema 21:04, 5 April 2009 (UTC)

PErhaps at least later half of the game, I would think. Amelia and Ross are out, but eh.--Otherarrow 21:28, 5 April 2009 (UTC)

Isn't Fiona an Est of Micaiah's story? Super late, weak base, super difficult to use, great growths? Hasofcd 00:30, June 20, 2010 (UTC)

Doesn't Elincia qualify as an Est? Hasofcd 03:52, June 24, 2010 (UTC)

Not really. I'd say she is more of a secondary Lord personally. I'd compare calling her an Est to claiming Ephraim counted as one when he rejoins the party in Elincia's path of the Sacred Stones.--Otherarrow 11:10, June 24, 2010 (UTC)

I think you're confusing Elincia with Eirika; in Path of Radiance, Elincia becomes playable toward the end of the game, as on of the last characters to join, at level 1 with low base stats, but she has excellent growths in every stat but defense and HP. Joins late, low level, low bases, good growths; sounds like an Est to me Are You Serious 22:49, July 2, 2010 (UTC)

And how about Sanaki? Those growths are pretty awesome, but bases, not so much. Hasofcd 03:50, July 24, 2010 (UTC)

If you are putting in Sanaki, then what about Myrrh. She is low bases (besides dragonstone bonus) and can train to be the best unit in the game Killinngedge 20:21, September 4, 2010 (UTC) Killingedge

Kain & Abel

In FE6, Lance wore green and Alan red. The archetype says in FE9 the trend was reversed. I'm not sure much about FE8 and their cavaliers, so... I think somebody more qualified than me could edit. Teh Pwnerer 05:03, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

Nabarl

How is this even an archetype. I wolud guess that 99% of myrmidons have high speed and skill growths with low strength growths. Also, if it is an archetpye, how doesn't Fir fit the qualifications? Teh Pwnerer 05:06, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

Marisa or Zihark, maybe? 71.207.87.185 00:24, 10 January 2009 (UTC)

Zealot

Well, even though Zealot comes in chapter 7, his growths are just SO BAD that he should be included. I believe that Ofiaye joined around the same point in Seisen no Keifu. Teh Pwnerer 02:43, 23 December 2008 (UTC)

Oifaye is a special case, as he comes at the beginning of the second generation. Other than that, Zealot's bad stats do not make him a Jag...Jeigen.--Otherarrow 23:33, 22 January 2009 (UTC)

missing the fighters

fighters coming in pairs is some sort of archetype and I think it should be added, (its kind of like the pegasus sisters)

--Semajdraehs- any replies to my Talk page 19:33, 10 April 2009 (UTC)

The Bord and Cord? I removed them because people were complaining that they were not notable enough.--Otherarrow 20:44, 10 April 2009 (UTC)

Well I believe they are an archetype no matter what anyone else says, I suggest you put them back in, but its up to you. --Semajdraehs- any replies to my Talk page 20:47, 10 April 2009 (UTC)

Does Ayra fit the Nabarl Archetype? And is the Cain/Abel archetypes correct?

I've been sort of questioning Ayra being included in the Nabarl archetype. She IS a myrmidon (sort of), but she lacks the killing edge/other high crit sword the archetype requires... I guess I could understand her bending the rules a bit though.

Also I don't understand the Abel and Cain archetype. In FE1, Abel starts with higher skill, speed, and weapon skill, but grows higher strength, and weapon skill than Cain only. Cain starts with higher strength,and luck than Abel, but grows more HP, Skill, Speed, and Luck than Abel. This carries on in FE3, their base stats are the same but Abel grows more HP than Cain and Cain grows more weapon skill.

I don't know, the Cain and Abel archetypes are really confusing.

--Special:Contributions/I Miss You 12:34, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

You could make a case for Ira's inclustion because of her Astra skill (I am not sure if there are killer weapons in Seisen no Keifu...) As for Cain and Abel, I am not sure. Does this mean that they were switched for FE3 book 2? (Cain being a Abel and Abel a Cain?)--Otherarrow 21:14, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

That clears things up a bit with Ayra. I forgot FE4 doesn't have a Crit value, meaning Killer weapons would be sort of pointless. (Unless they gave you the crit skill, which still wouldn't help if said unit had low skill.)

Also I'm not counting Book 2, simply because Abel is a prepromote and Kain is not. This give's Abel an obvious boost in most stats. (He would be lolfail if they left his stats the same and just promoted him.)

The archetype as a whole is hard to explain... generally the Green knight grows more of the "manly" stats (Strength, Defense, HP, Build) while the Red Knight gains more of the "graceful" stats (Speed, Skill, Luck, Magic/Resistance) This was only switched in FE6 where Allen was more like Abel base and growth wise and Lance was more like Cain. I was thinking the descriptions of the Abel and Cain archetypes should be switched.--Special:Contributions/I Miss You 05:08, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

(cough)Made actual account.(cough)--I Miss You 23:24, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

The only Abels listed that have higher Strength and Defense growths, and so forth is Abel. It's the same thing with Kain. In all the other games where there is an obvious Kain/Abel (FE4, 6, 7, and 8), the base stats match their growths. I'd suggest a more appropriate classification. Kains have higher strength and defense, and in the Japan-only games wore red armour while wearing green in the English games. Abels have higher speed and skill, and in the Japan-only games wore green armour while wearing red in the English games. The Kains are: Kain, Noish, Alan, Sain, and Kyle, while the Abels are: Abel, Alec, Lance, Kent, and Forde. --IceFenrir 00:37, 19 July 2009 (UTC)

Fair enough. Let's make the changes then.--Otherarrow 00:41, 19 July 2009 (UTC)

zeiss and oujay

I was wondering, do you think that Zeiss and Oujay from Fire Emblem 6 are considered to be Est and Ogma archetypes? I was thinking of including these characters for several reasons. Oujay growths rates are evenly distributed like Ogma and his fellow mercenary Dieck (although when compared to Dieck, he ends up with higher speed and luck). Zeiss starts out at level 7 in chapter 16. He appears weak at first since he is very low level and his stats are quite low, but with great stat growths (as well as Hard Mode bonuses), he turns out to be one of the best units in the game. Too bad I consider Sophia to be one of the worst Ests in history.--Dark Paladin X 17:23, 9 August 2009 (UTC)

Trueblade74 (sorry i don't know if my profile has a link): Dude, I don't know if you've noticed yet, but about every single unit you get seems to be part of a duo or trio or more, consisting with classes and promotions. Those are: Lance, Alan, Treck, Noah, Marcus, Zealot, Percival; Bors, Wendy, Barth, Douglas; Ward, Lot, Bartre; Thany, Tate, Yuno; Dieck, OUJAY, Echidna; Ellen, Saul, Yodel; Clarine, Cecilia; Rutger, Fir, Karel; Wolt, Dorothy, Klein, Igrene; Lugh, Lilina, Hugh; Chad, Astol, Cath; Sue, Shin, Dayan; Gonzales, Geese, Garret; Ray, Sophia, Niime; Miledy, ZEISS. The first is the start, the second is weaker than your original by recrution time if the original was trained, and the third is either promoted or stronger than the other 2. It`s not an archetype; it's abuse of a new animation style and class abilities. Oujay is pretty much similar to Lilina, Lucius (FE7), Amelia (FE8), Sothe (FE9), and Rolf (FE10) : Something seemingly useless at the beginning, due to low stats or previously recruited unit in same class, or both, but if trained, becomes one of your best units. BTW, Oujay is already counted as part of the Ogma archetype. As for Zeiss, he shares the title of Est with Sophia, but isn't really that good; he mainly focuses on defence and HP (which is a MAJOR pain for Arena Abusing), making him more like a General with wings, or a demo for Aran (FE10).

Archer Archetype

Hey, I'm just a fan of this wiki and have made contributions (I have also debated getting a wikia account) and I was wondering, I've noticed that there always seems to be a weak archer with a lot of potential that joins in the beginning of the game, i.e. Gordin, Rebecca and Rolf, maybe a new archetype should be added for these? Gordin and Rolf become great, if not good snipers, something that seems to be held in common for many of the games. Just something I wanted to point out.

You're right. I'll add that in. (Camtech075 23:46, September 25, 2009 (UTC))

Enemy Archtype

Hardin, Alvis, Zephiel, Lyon, Nergal all start out as good people and were later corrupted (by the darksphere, Manfloy, father trying to kill him, Sacred Stone, quintessence respectively). Isn't this an archtype of some kind?

--Semajdraehs- any replies to my Talk page 16:19, 28 August 2009 (UTC)

New archetype: the Levn?

I've noticed there's often a character posing as a simple traveler who joins early or mid-game, and is later revealed to be royalty, or otherwise of plot-critical heritage. Commonly, but not neccesarily, a bard.

Examples:

Levn (FE4)
Elphin (FE6)
Nils and Ninian (FE7)
Joshua (FE8)
L'arachel (FE8)
Kurth (FE10)

Would this qualify as an archetype?

--Everzwijn 16:48, 29 August 2009 (UTC)

I don't see why it wouldn't be. It does seem to be a recurring character type--Otherarrow 17:02, 29 August 2009 (UTC)

RE: Levn?

Would Matthew qualify for that, assuming it became classified as an archetype? He joins the Lyndis Leagion early in game under the guise of a common thief, but later reveals that he works as a spy for house Ostia, one of the most powerful regions in the Lycean League. Just a suggestion. SenToshi- 23:41, September 25, 2009 (UTC)

I don't think so. He may be more important that we thought but he's not really that important to the plot. (Camtech075 23:43, September 25, 2009 (UTC))

I'd argue that that could be open to interpretation. Working as a spy for house Ostia, he's at least related in some obscure way(socially) to the nobles there. Like Marcus with Eliwood, he seems to be Hector's "right hand man" in some ways. His fiancee is involved in the plot serving as a primary source of information without which the plot might never have progressed past the invasion of Caelin. She later dies. Assuming Matthew is still alive, he mourns and buries her. If he's dead, he is mentioned and she is buried beside him. Depending on how strict you would want to be with the guidelines for this archetype, he may or may not be eligible for inclusion. SenToshi- 23:49, September 25, 2009 (UTC)

Good point, but just because Leila is plot-important doesn't mean that he is. I don't care either way, but I don't think he should count. (Camtech075 23:53, September 25, 2009 (UTC))

Guess you've got a point. This will probably simply remain up in the air. Still, had to throw it in here just to see if it could be done somehow. SenToshi- 23:58, September 25, 2009 (UTC)

Outside of plot importance, he doesn't count because he's a spy. Hiding his true identity is the very point behind his profession. --Everzwijn 16:45, September 26, 2009 (UTC)

Eh, but I love the thieves and such. Couldn't resist giving it a shot. SenToshi- 02:10, September 27, 2009 (UTC)

Kain/Abel Archetypes

Who put Oscar in the Kain Archetype and Kieran in the Abel Archetype? In general, I thought that the Abel was the Green Knight and Kain was the Red Knight. (Camtech075 23:41, September 25, 2009 (UTC))

RE: Archer Archetype

Could someone edit the Gordin Archetype that I added to be part of the "Archetype" section? I would do it but I don't know how. (Camtech075 15:21, September 26, 2009 (UTC))

Sure, you just need to add the correct amount of '=' (equal) signs in the header (in this case from 2 to 3). Aveyn Knight 15:52, September 26, 2009 (UTC)

Mage Archetype?

I've been thinking, and I've noticed that Marich (Merric) from FE1 might have started a trend of earlygame mages that come at a low-ish level. Look at this:

Marich (Merric) joins in chapter 4 of FE1/11
May and Boowy join during chapter 2 of FE2 (Cellica Party)
Ryuto joins during chapter 3 of Alm Party.
Linde joins at the beginning of chapter 3 in FE3.
Asvel joins at the beginning of the prologue (1st generation of FE4)
Yuria and Amid/Arthur join during chapter 6- the first chapter of the 2nd generation (Of FE4)
Asvel joins during chapter 4x of FE5
Lugh joins during chapter 3 of FE6.
Erk joins duirng chapter 5 of Lyn's story and chapter 14 (The third chapter of FE7 Eliwood/Hector's story unless you count 13x)
Lute joins during chapter 4 of FE8.
Soren joins at the beginning of chapter 4 in FE9.
Ilyana joins during chapter 3 of FE10 Part 1.
Soren joins during chapter 3-prologue of FE10.

Just a thought. (Camtech075 23:28, September 26, 2009 (UTC))

I just added a similar archetype before reading this. I'd prefer to split them by genders though, since the female ones typically appear last - only Lute, Linde and Ilyana break this trend, while Yuria technically isn't a Mage. Aveyn Knight 21:07, October 16, 2009 (UTC)

Wouldn't Vaida (FE7) be included in the group of Dragon Knight characters who initially appear as enemies? I know she doesn't have red armor, but I still think she belongs.

about gottoh abel and cain archetype

i think fe9 nasir should be included in the gottoh archetype and i pretty sure forde and kyle's roles are switched

Marcus FE7 is a Jeigan!

I edited it onto the page, but it got taken off, so I decided to take my case up here. Im a guest, but I'm not a vandal. Marcus has better growths and starting stats than his buddies, and his STARTING stats are probably on par for an Ofi, however his growths are completele crap (with him usally just gaining skill, if your lucky), he has ZERO end game potential, and using him past chapther 6 is going to hurt you. Titanaia (fe9) and Seth (FE8) have great growths and are endagame viable. Maybe thye won't be fantasitc units, but their usable. Marcus at the end of the game is a weak cripple who will be outclassed by EVERYONE else in your army, and raising Marcus is the leading cause of newbies being stuck at Limastella (go search the gamefaqs board). Seth and Titiania (FE9) won't harm your end game team, and Titania (FE10) is a BEASTLY endgame unit. Just because Marcus is a bit stronger than the other Jiegans, does not make him an Of. He still has ZERO potential and garbage growths (which I believe is whats suppose to seperate the two). Thoughts?

Well, people are not really meant to use any Jeigan, Oifey or otherwise, after a certain point. Some specifics. Oifey gets out shined by the majority of the "Children" characters and others like Aless or Shanan, and Seth is about as useful as Marcus, sure he is better in direct comparison, but everyone has pretty high potential in that game and promoting any of the cavaliers (to either class) will make them outclass Seth in the end anyway. As for Marcus, yes he is a horrid unit, but compared to other Jeigans (including his FE6 self), some have found him very useful, and yes, I have seen some who have taken him to the endgame (why, I do not know, but the fact that they even considered it must show something about him). As for which he truely belongs, I know not. We originally had both forms as an Jeigan, than people came editing by insisting he was an Oifey. And now, we have people editing by insisting he is a Jeigan.

Also, Titania is not a Jeigan or an Oifey in Radiant Dawn, the closest we have to that is Sothe, but not close enough that people are willing to label him either.--Otherarrow 18:26, January 16, 2010 (UTC)

IS themselves state in their Q and A sections that Marcus (FE7) and Titania (FE9) are usable from the beginning to end (and implied Seth fell into the same boat). Marcus is also at the highest point in Fire Emblem Genesis's FE7 tier list. Aveyn Knight 19:44, January 16, 2010 (UTC)

Marcus in FE6 is then a jeigan, but in fe7 he's not. I once tried to train him and he's quite decent (Fe7) and while training him in Fe6 his strength remained the same for 9 levels. So i think he is an oifey in fe7 (though after that i stopped training him) - airheadsrock. 13.08, Feb 13 2010

i think there is one more archetype. something like lowen and noah.

you know from fe6(idk fe4 and fe5 since i did not play them) onwards there is Noah, a cavalier that is kinda balanced and lowen also appeared too. in fe11 there is frey. can it be considerd an archetype? User:Airheadsrock. 3.58pm, Feb 12 2010

Someone suggusted something like that before, but the answer is still no. Mostly because what you are proposing seems to be just "third cavalier" or "cavalier who isn't the Cain or the Abel". It just isn't distinctive enough.--Otherarrow 09:52, February 12, 2010 (UTC)

So you mean it doesn't appear in alot of games? airheadsrock. 13.05, 13 Feb 2010

No, I mean it just isn't notable. For example, one of the only things Franz has in common with Lowen, Noah, Matthis, Frey, etc is that they are all cavaliers that are not either the Cain or Abel. I really don't think we should include an archetype where the main requirement is that it does not fit into another archetype.--Otherarrow 10:08, February 13, 2010 (UTC)

Aloof pre-promote swordmaster/other class archetype?

I've noticed a trend in some pre-promoted swordmaster and similar classes. They tend to be strong for pre-promote and join mid to late game. They have a calm and aloof personality, and are occasionally somewhat ruthless. They'll sometimes become the mentor of another sword-user (similar to the sage mentor-merric archetype).

Examples:

Shanan (FE 4) (?)
Shanam (FE 5) (?)
Karel (FE 6/7)
Stefan (FE 9/10)
Volke (FE 10)

I haven't played many FE's outside of japan some I'm unsure about characters from FE 2, 4, 5, and 6, but I definitely think this is a legitimate archetype. -RedBaron45 02:59, February 21, 2010 (UTC)

I wouldn't really think so. The characters and most of the description gives an impression that the archetype is "Nabarl, but promoted!" which, doesn't really make for a distinctive archetype.--Otherarrow 03:09, February 21, 2010 (UTC)

I guess you're right. Maybe it's a sub-archetype of Nabarl? Like Ephidel to Gharnef? I definitely see a trend. - RedBaron45 03:24, February 21, 2010 (UTC)

Prehaps so. The Shanan? Since this is a archetype about playables, you may want to find something in gameplay they have in common, such as they are all fairly good for prepromoted units (this would disqualify Shanam btw), or that they have Nabarl-esque growths. Since you noticed this, I'd leave that to you, but since this is a subtype of a (mostly) class specific archetype, try to keep the classes consistent. Sorry Volke.--Otherarrow 03:34, February 21, 2010 (UTC)

I'll add it as the Shanan. Some also join with high crit-rate weapons like Nabarl (Stefan - Vague Katti, Karel - Wo Dao). As far as Volke goes, he fits most of the requirements (the personality, he's an amazing unit for a pre-promote in FE 10, he joins in Part 4, the Assassin class in FE 4 is pretty much a swordmaster with more crits and knives). - RedBaron45 04:30, February 21, 2010 (UTC)

another question: will linde archetype qualify

i think its kinda common as linde has high magic and then there's lilina (sorry i dont play 123459 and 10). And then there's lute in fe8. Lute also has high magic. Idk if nino qualifys but then every game has at least a female mage right? --airheadsrock 7.45p.m. 22 February 2010 (because i forgot the date)

I think "female mage with high magic" is far too general. A lot of mages in the games are female, and high magic is kinda a requirement to be a good magical unit.--Otherarrow 13:39, February 23, 2010 (UTC)

"Heartless" enemy general story archetype?

I've noticed that in the Fire Emblem games I've played there has been a enemy general who is usually introduced as a character well before they are actually fought. They are often very close to the main antagonist. They have an bitterly cruel and heartless personality and do not care whatsoever about they safety of their soldiers. Many address fellow generals with great disrespect. They play a major role in the plot and can even manipulate some of the games events, especially early on. The "Camus" and "Lorenz" characters will frequently question their morals and loyalty. They are very narcissistic.

They include (from the games I've played):

Hilda (FE4)
Narshen (FE6)
Sonia (FE7)
Valter (FE8)
Petrine (FE9)
Valtome (FE10)

RedBaron45 04:31, March 2, 2010 (UTC)

This seems to heavily borrow people from the Michalis archetype and only two of them are really that close to the main villian. Not to mention that there seems to be a divide at whether they are taken seriously and to what degree. Besides this seems to be mainly a rehash of Michalis, and potentially Gharnef, archetypes. So I'd would not include it. And, no offense, but I am getting kinda tired of people constantly proposing archetypes and fiddling with them. There are many far more important pages that could use the work instead.--Otherarrow 09:35, March 2, 2010 (UTC)

I've actually edited much more than the Archetype talk page. I understand why you're angry, but I'm not the right person to take it out on. I'll stay away from the Archetype page if that's what you want.RedBaron45 22:45, March 2, 2010 (UTC)

Tear Ring Saga Characters

Is it ok if I link to tear ring saga characters on this page? A couple of FE archtypes show up in that game.– The preceding unsigned comment was added by 174.91.93.166 (talk).

I personally have no problem with it, but some other users might be upset.--Otherarrow 18:04, April 17, 2010 (UTC)

The Maria Archetype?

I think this a pretty common trend. Around mid-early game - about Chapter 7-10, A young girl, usually of some nobility, that is usually held agains their will in some way before joining. They usually have even less usuability because of their low base stats, but they often have good luck growths and determination to stay on the battlefield. They also usually have some relations to other characters in the plot that make give them importance at certain times. Look at it -

FE 1 Maria
FE3: Yumina
FE4: Rana
FE5: Tina
FE6: Lilina - Not a healer, but that's her only flub.
FE8: Tana - Ephraim's Route, though she's not a healer, or a magical unit, she fits everything else perfectly.

FE9: Mist

Thoughts?

Hasofcd 16:08, June 10, 2010 (UTC)

Hardin(Book 2) archetype

Shouldn't there be an archetype based off Hardin? It would be for characters that started out a good friend of the protagonist but for various reasons end up falling to evil and becoming the most powerful enemy in the game.

Clear Characters in this would be

Hardin

Alvis

Zephiel

Lyon

Possible members are

Yurius

Nergal

Black Knight

Emperor Hardin 20:44, July 15, 2010 (UTC)

SPOILERS: Hmm. Well, when and for how long had they have to have been friendly? Hardin and Zephiel are "good" for a whole game, while Alvis and Lyon are only "good" in the backstory. (Note good is in quotes. This is not the place for discussing that) As for possible members, Yurius and Black Knight are right out. The games don't do a good job of showing what is Yurius and what is because of his possession, and his former kindess is only mentioned in passing and never shown. Zelgius was aligned to Sephiran from the beginning. Nergal may be out, since we only truly see "good" Nergal in very brief flashbacks.--Otherarrow 02:11, July 17, 2010 (UTC)

Yeah thats true about Nergal, his backstory is hard to find. Even moreso for Yurius. I think Alvis fits because he shows up as an ally on the map and seems nice at first, however his brother doesn't exactly speak kindly of him. Lyon never was game ally but his friendship with Ephraim and Eirika was mentioned enough to qualify.

Emperor Hardin 02:40, July 17, 2010 (UTC)

I'm not royal ready yet.

I've noticed in the fireemblem series that there is a number of people with royal blood who didn't want to rule but had no other choice, or something similar, like they didn't feel they deserve it.

FE1: minerva
FE8: Lyon and joshua
FE10: Elincia and Pelleas and kurthnaga

{{Bowserclass}} Do you see merric's Grr face? [and if i caught a mistake of yours pretend I slapped you.] 00:00, July 17, 2010 (UTC)

The fourth game has Levn who kinda reminds me of Joshua. We already have the Levn archetype however, so maybe it won't fit?

Emperor Hardin 00:49, July 17, 2010 (UTC)

We don't need this. This seems like a sloppy combo of the Levn archetype and the fears of young rulers in general. Not every ruler will be able to take over suddenly and be like "yeah! Let's do this! Country running and politics and economics and so on!". I say the parts that are not covered by the Levn archetype are not really worthy of note.--Otherarrow 00:55, July 17, 2010 (UTC)

Otherarrow, what do you think of the Archetype I wrote above?

Emperor Hardin 01:35, July 17, 2010 (UTC)

Could be Meg considered an Draug? she comes early in micaiah team, the first armor knight.

Linde did'n started an archetype, doesn't she? since there have been an female mage, that always will turn out a very powerful unit, lilina, nino, lute , illyana, sonia (FE2).

Let's see. A archetype based solely on gender really sounds too general. Also, the "will always turn out good" is questionable. I've heard as much people say that Lilina, Nino, and Ilyana are the worst mages of their games as I have people who claim they are the best.--Otherarrow 18:41, August 1, 2010 (UTC)

ok, i think that is right

and meg? could she be considered and draug?

No. Draugs are considered useful, if for nothing else, for the fact that they can take damage that would kill other units due to high defense. On the other hand, I've heard that Meg is often considered one of the worst units in her game.--Otherarrow 18:49, August 1, 2010 (UTC)

Well Arden is listed as a member of the Draug archetype, and the poor guy is one of the worst units in the series due to poor movement in a game with large maps.

Emperor Hardin 19:03, August 1, 2010 (UTC)

Would Soren be considered a Levn of 9 and 10? He is Ashnard's son and technically royalty of both Goldoa and Daein, although his Branded status makes him a reject from either. The important thing, I think, is that it's a very difficult fact to learn on one's own, plus he is met early on as a Greil Mercenary in both games, which is somewhat close to traveler. - Digitaldrummer

No, because Soren never learns he is a prince. All the other Levn's knew of their royalty/importance before becoming travelers.--Otherarrow 10:14, August 12, 2010 (UTC)

Malledus/Tactician Archetype?

Ever since FE1 (or Shadow Dragon) there's sometimes been a tactician/advisor/strategist in the army or kingdom that gives advice to the main character. Here are some examples:

Malledus (FE1/FE11)
Jeigan (FE3/FE12)
Oifey (FE4 Gen 1)
Levn (FE4 Gen 2)
August and Dorias (FE5)
Merlinus (FE6)
Soren (FE9)

Sounds about right. Go for it.--Otherarrow 23:31, August 14, 2010 (UTC)

Could Marcus (FE7) and Oswin be included in this archetype? They kind of advise Eliwood and Hector respectively, but it's not totally prominent...

I think there's a Castor archetype

I think that there is a Castor archetype. I can only think of one character in this archetype: Heather. Anyways, characters in this archetype are either working for theives, or are theives. They are doing this, usually to help their sick mother.--Black Dragon Laguz 23:16, August 14, 2010 (UTC)

You'd have Castor and Heather....maybe Dorcas if you stretch it out a bit. Aside from that small thing, these characters have nothing in common, different classes, different personalities...--Otherarrow 23:31, August 14, 2010 (UTC)

RE:Malledus/Tactician Archetype?

Wouldn't Sothe, Micaiah, and Izuka (kinda) Fit here?

Also for the Castor Archetype response, Just because they aren't they same class, doesn't mean they don't fit into the theoretical archetype. Look at the Levn Archtype or Gotoh Archetype.

micaiah is a lord so no, Sothe maybe, Izuka is just a moron, and he never has a good plan that is used either. I thought Seth from Sacred Stones should get in but...Killinngedge 05:19, September 23, 2010 (UTC)Killingedge

Lorenz achetype

dosen't sheema fit this archetype?

loyal to her country and a bit tricky to recruit

I supposes she does!--Otherarrow 16:59, August 19, 2010 (UTC)

Another possible Est?

Wouldn't L'archel count as an est? she comes after chapter 10 (a.k.a. late game) at a low level, bad bases, but turns out awesome. She should be included.

I believe you mean L'Arachel. I think the first 'A' is capitalized, too.--Black Dragon Laguz 02:02, September 1, 2010 (UTC)

I'm not sure if this is an archetype, but

I'm not sure if this is an archetype, but: I think there is an archetype of characters who try to find love, but they wind up alone. I would say Gatrie and Roger fit this archetype, or at least a similar one. The archetype consists of male characters, who are often armored units. Sorry, I'm having trouble thinking right now. Basically, there are similarites between the two aforementioned characters and it seems to be an archetype or something.--Black Dragon Laguz 02:04, August 31, 2010 (UTC)

Bandit Archetype

I was thinking that there is a bandit archetype. what they basically do is harrass near by villages and is usually defeated early on by the Player's army. Since the Soothsires are the first ones to fit under that archetype it would be fitting to name it after them.

Groups who would fall into this cataegory would be

Soothsires (fe1/11)
Raman thieves (fe3/ 12)
Lifis bandits(fe5)
Ganelon bandits (fe7)
Zawana's bandits (fe9)
Laguz bandits (fe10)

If I made any mistakes (missing a group or did not properly name them) just leave another comment and correct me.

It seems like it's an Archetype. But...I don't know. I'm not too good, with Archetypes.--Black Dragon Laguz 01:57, September 1, 2010 (UTC)

Thought of another: the Raman thieves from Monsho no nazo.-- Bravesword 15:17,september 7,2010

Jeorge Archetype?

Wouldn't there be a Jeorge Archetype of Low level, Pre-Promoted, Snipers that join mid game that often join with a Silver Bow? Also Later Jeorges are rather wealthy and Join with a Gem of some sorts.

People in the Archetype include (I havent played FE2-5 so those not included :/):

Jeorge (FE1/11)

Igrene (FE6)

Klein (FE6)

Louise (FE7)

Innes (FE8)

Tomas (FE12)

Shinon (FE9)

You could also add Shinon from FE9 and also, some of the Jeorges happeen to become or are the Gordin's teacherKillinngedge 08:40, September 5, 2010 (UTC) Killingedge

I don't like adding Shinon because he joins early game and comes with an Iron bow. Altthough you could make him fit Joerachi 15:19 September 5, 2010 (EST) Joerachi

Yeah, but he leaves and comes back later with a brave bow so thats what im going byKillinngedge 05:17, September 23, 2010 (UTC)Killngedge

Could Felgus qualify as an Ogma?

I know Felgus is technically not of the mercenary class(it isn't present in that game, even though Hero is), but his background as a mercenary seems to fit with that archetype. Stats and growth wise he seems balanced and above average, not to mention that he can fight pretty good while dismounted. In a way, the Free Knight class is kind of more like a mounted mercenary than a cavalier limited to swords. AxeFighterBarst 23:48, September 14, 2010 (UTC)

If you think he is, then add him.--Otherarrow 20:45, September 17, 2010 (UTC)

Wendell Archetype?

I've just realized there might be an archetype of a promoted magic user (usually a sage), that serves as a teacher or mentor to a young mage (usually the Merric character).AxeFighterBarst 19:17, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

Wendell (FE1/FE3/FE11/FE12)
Sety (FE5)
Pent (FE7)
Saleh (FE8)
Calill (FE9)

FE8 and the Arran/Samson archetype

Trueblade74- I know you get Innes/Duessel and Saleh/Knoll in the same army in Chapter 15, but that doesn't mean they still can't be part of the Arran/Samson archetype, you know. Otherarrow, why'd you delete my comments?

When did I delete your comments? Anyway, the whole point of the Arran and Samson thing is you pick one over the other, you can't get both. If you just get the other later, then it is not an example.--Otherarrow 20:57, September 17, 2010 (UTC)

Tear Ring Saga's Jeigan

Considering Raffin, has good growths, average base stats, and is able to promote to a unique class, does he really qualify as a Jeigan at all? I wouldn't even count him as an Oifey.

Personally I'd consider Garo, Tear Ring Saga's Jeigan as he has high base stats for that point in the game, is older then the other characters, and cannot promote.

Emperor Hardin 18:48, October 13, 2010 (UTC)

I don't know much about Tear Ring Saga, but I have heard a lot from different people that Garo is the Jeigen, while Raffin is sort of considered an Oifey. However, concerning Raffin, the fact that he gets promoted in Chapter 10 without having to use a Dragon Flute makes him end up better than just "decent", which is usually what an Oifey ends up as. That's my two cents... --'--Charged151 - any replies to my Talk page -' 22:59, November 7, 2010 (UTC)

Tiki Archetype

Tiki archetype having a Manakete who can transforms into a divine dragon by using the divine stone. Or a powerful Manakete transforms into dragon like Tiki, Fae, Myrrh and Nagi.

So basically, every playable Manakete who isn't Bantu? Sorry, but that doesn't seem like an Archetype to me, just a class list. Maybe if you were more specific? (Are these characters similar personality wise or stat wise?)--Otherarrow 10:37, November 16, 2010 (UTC)

The Julian archetype

I am not sure if all the Julian archetype thieves are like this, but Julian can actually be powerful when trained. I have found Matthew to be at least somewhat powerful, also. So, perhaps the archetype should be described as starting out weak, but can be at least somewhat powerful when trained. Black Dragon Laguz 22:53, February 13, 2011 (UTC)

Could Lute be an exception?

The Merric archetype labels the character as a "male" mage, but Lute seems to follow most of the other patterns of Merrics: she is the first mage you get and quickly becomes a powerful unit despite starting at Level 1. She also has the "unusually intelligent and scholarly" personality that Merrics seem to have as a whole and the social ineptitude that other late Merrics have, albeit a slightly different brand.--PPPSSC

I agree; I find it a little odd that she hasn't been counted yet. She fits just about every other Merric description besides being male and having a teacher. Hasofcd 02:54, March 22, 2011 (UTC)